GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2010-03 > 1268078620
From: Christine Czarnecki <>
Subject: Re: Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 12:03:40 -0800 (PST)
I have to say that this speculation is poppycock.
Every family has relatives who look very much like one side or both, and some who look, as my friends said about their youngest, "like himself."
At first glance, my son is 6'4" and looks absolutely nothing like his 5'10" father. That does not mean he is not his son, as I can most certainly attest, and his DNA analysis would verify. What he does have is height from my paternal grandmother's side, and a nose like my maternal grandfather's, but no one looking at him who does not know the entire family would know this.
How many pictures of Prince Philip's ancestors have you seen, or Diana's for that matter, to say that Prince Andrew doesn't look like he could be his father's son, or Prince Harry doesn't look like he could be Charles'?
As someone trained as a molecular biologist, I can tell you that the genotype is often very different from the phenotype. If you are willing to believe that that string of citations going back to Geoffrey of Anjou, William the Conqueror, Alfred the Great, and Charlemagne are all accurate enough to assure you of your descent, you could certainly allow the modern royals the benefit of the doubt, just as you would expect others to concede that your own children are indeed yours.
From: Dora Smith <>
To: Sam Sloan <>;
Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 10:37:16 AM
Subject: Re: Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII
British royal family don't do DNA tests as a matter of policy. Could be
Elizabeth II's policy. Now, they don't handle any genetic issue very well.
For instance, Elizabeth's father almost certainly had porphyria; it was
proven that a brother did, and his attacks of illness were the most
classical form of that condition; however, I don't think any of his
descendants know if they have porphyria or not and it's the sort of disease
that's often silent but every once in a while pops out and kills someone.
It also causes a characteristic mood and anxiety disorder in nearly everyone
who carries the gene, and the royal family can't deal with that issue
either. Subclinical porphyria is the reason why we're now so careful with
There's also the can of worms thing. The royal family refuse to be blood
typed. Now, it is widely believed that Prince Philip is not the father of
Prince Andrew. The Queen had formed a close relationship with Lord
Caernavon, head of her stable or something of the sort. Who looks like
Prince Andrew. When confronted she broke up with him, about the tiem she
became pregnant with Andrew, and it broke her heart. She suffered from a
bout of deep depression that required psychotherapy to pull out of. Prince
Philip all but ignored Andrew when he was growing up, which was why he was
spoiled and loutish.
Allowing DNA testing of anyone might not reveal that Prince Charles' sons
aren't his, but ultimately it could unravel other matters.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Sloan" <>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:04 AM
Subject: Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVII
> An interesting historical concerns Marie Antoinette and her husband
> and children. She did not give birth to a child during the first eight
> years of her marriage in spite of pressures to do so, but then she got
> pregnant six times in rapid succession. It was widely reported and
> believed that she had taken a lover, Count Axel von Fersen of Sweden.
> After she was executed on the guillotine, her only surviving son would
> have become King Louis XVII but he died in prison two years later at
> age 10. Many believed that he had not really died but had been rescued
> and another boy substituted in his place. More than one hundred
> pretenders emerged claiming to be the lost king.
> The heart of the boy who died in prison and of his elder brother have
> both been preserved. mtDNA tests on the heart of the boy who died in
> prison have proven that he was either the son of Marie Antoinette or
> else a close relative.
> There have apparently been no reported DNA tests to prove whether or
> not his father was King Louis XVI. There is a lot of reason to believe
> that his real father was Count Axel von Fersen.
> A book about this is "Marie Antoinette The Portrait of an Average
> Woman". This book has been made into as movie. The 1938 movie stars
> Norma Shearer as Marie Antoinette, Tyrone Power as Count Axel de
> Fersen, John Barrymore as King Louis XV and Robert Morley as King
> Louis XVI.
> This was one of the most expensive and elaborate movies ever made at
> that time, with period costumes. I played the movie last night. It
> clearly shows a sexual relationship between Marie Antoinette and Count
> Fersen to the extent that censors would allow it at that time.
> I am wondering why they do not do a y-chromosome DNA test. It would
> not be because it would overthrow the monarchy because the boy left no
> It would solve an interesting historical question. Could it be part of
> a cover-up?
> ISBN 4-87187-855-4
> Sam Sloan
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