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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2010-07 > 1278415233


From: M Sjostrom <>
Subject: Re: Henry Project: Agatha
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:20:33 +0300
References: <AANLkTik8SuvJ1XacjT0EHI3-QA5QQyzqTbxG4n3uzXH-@mail.gmail.com><mailman.512.1277670804.3594.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><a4648737-18f6-479a-acca-16fec70e39bd@c10g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <a4648737-18f6-479a-acca-16fec70e39bd@c10g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>


1) although one lady might have gotten a new name to replace her birth name,
a totally new onomastic tradition having effect in several names in several
generations of descendants is still another matter than one person changing.
Agatha, Margarita, Khristiana, possibly Alexander and David.

2) my belief is that testimony from namings, onomastics, consistently of a
number of persons, is somewhat underestimated or neglected by some camp(s)
in this discussion.
Also the point which Baldwin calls as geographical onomastics, should be
taken as important indication and applied correctly, with correct
geographical regions.

3) I am well aware that some of those who have argued against onomastics in
this case, have simultaneously shown that their own knowledge of locational
appearances of names in this epoch is faulty at best. [perhaps then good
that *they* do not emphasize onomastics in their thinking, because THAT will
surely lead to disasters, they connecting people to totally wrong regions.]
I mean for example the really ignorant idea that Margarita and Khristiana
could in 1050s or earlier been Swedish names.

4) a bit more relevant research seems to suggest that Anna was the name of
Jaroslav's first wife. while his second wife Ingegerd (not '-gerg') would
have been known as Irene/Irina/Eirene. There also are some research results
to suggest that in russian context of those days, if an orthodox name was
adopted as adult or a later than baby christening, it was close in
pronunciation with the original name. Olga Helena, Vladimir Vasilei,
Jaroslav Jorgos, Inger Irene....

5) actually, the bit that Agatha's father would have been 'germanus' of
emperor Henry, is from two relatively late sources: John of Worcester and
Aildred. It is only at that late stage when an ethnically Deutschland origin
gets attached to Agatha.

The earliest sources vaguely mention a vague (and remote-feeling) kinship
with emperor Henry (this surely does not mean 'German origin', as in Agatha
born in Germany or sired by an ethnically german father) - while the same
early sources place Edward very clearly to Russia and Hungary.

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