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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2010-11 > 1290728286


From: "Peter Stewart" <>
Subject: Re: Agatha de Hommet
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 10:38:06 +1100
References: <mailman.3.1290709502.22533.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><2e2191ef-752e-4374-b36f-c161e7c415a7@s16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <2e2191ef-752e-4374-b36f-c161e7c415a7@s16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>


"John P. Ravilious" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Nov 25, 1:24 pm, wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/25/2010 9:57:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >
> > writes:
> > > ' Matillis de la Haia, que fuit filia Willelmi de Vernun, et uxor
> > > Ricardi de la Haia, est de donatione Domini Regis, et est lvij
> > > annorum; et habet iij filias, quarum j habet Gerardus de Camville,
> > > et alteram Ricardus de Humez, tertiam Willelmus de Rolles. ' [1]

<snip>

> Dear Will,
>
> I would translate the text in question as:
>
> ' Matilda de la Haye, who was the daughter of William de Vernon,
> and wife of Richard de la Haye, is in the gift of the Lord King, and
> is 57 years of age; and she has 3 daughters, of which 1 has Gerard de
> Camville [as her husband], and another Richard de Humez, the third
> William de Rullos. '
>
> There was no gift involved on the part of Matilda; what is meant
> is, she being widowed, it was the King's right to give her in
> marriage.

I think it's worth sticking closer to the Latin syntax, where the
sons-in-law Gerard, Richard and William are in the nominative - hubands
"had" wives in 12th century parlance, but not usually the other way round.
Hence "Matilda de la Haye...has three daughters, of whom Gerard de Camville
has one, Richard du Hommet another, William de Rolles the third".

Stating that Matilda was "de donatione regis" in these stock-take rolls
indicated that she was holding her listed property as the widow of a
tenant-in-chief and so could not act in many things, including marriage,
without the king's consent. It did not imply that the royal court would set
about arranging a marriage for a 57-year-old woman.

Peter Stewart

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