GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2011-02 > 1297978340
From: John <>
Subject: Re: Ancestry of Beatrix de Braose/de Brewes (who m Hugh Shirley)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:32:20 -0800 (PST)
On Feb 17, 12:49 pm, "Sholom Simon" <> wrote:
> I'm doing research for a friend, who turns out to be a descendant of
> Edmund Hawes -- who eventually connects up with royalty through Shirley,
> then de Braose.
> In NEHGR 142:242 (which is, in turn, cited by Weis, Ancestral Routes, 8th
> Ed, line 122A), we find that Beatrix de Braose (d 1440) was the daughter
> of Peter de Braose and Joan de Percy. There is no mention of a second
> wife for Peter. We see the same thing at NEHGR 150:315+
> (Gov. Dudley comes from this line, too)
> In Richardson's books (Plantagenet Ances. and M.C.Ances.) he mentions a
> second wife of Peter's -- Joan Howard, and asserts that Beatrix is a
> daughter of this second marriage. (Curiously, among the voluminous
> citations are both NEHGR articles).
> Anybody know what the story is here? Was there one, or two wives? If
> two, which one was the mother of Beatrix, and why is the other source
> Any help would be appreciated!
> -- Sholom
This was discussed at some length in a thread in this group in early
Cctober 2005. Actually Richardson mentions Joan Howard as wife of
Peter de Brewes (and mother of Beatrix) only in Magna Carta Ancestry.
In Plantagenet Ancestry he identified Beatrix's mother as Joan Percy
and doesn't mention Joan Howard..
The thread makes it clear that Richardson took an idea advanced by
Paul Mackenzie (and labeled by the latter as "speculation") and
recorded it as fact in his second book. When this was pointed out by
various contributors in the thread, Richardson went strangely silent
on the subject. I guess we'll have to wait for the long-promised
second editions of his books (IF they're ever published!) to see what
his current position is.