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From: Sholom Simon <>
Subject: More on the Ur Mother: Isabel (or Elizabeth) de Vermandois
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 18:42:53 -0400


>Do you descend from Isabel de Vermandois? If so I'd appreciate
>hearing from you here on the newsgroup. If possible, please post
>your line of descent from Countess Isabel here on the newsgroup.

Thanks for posting the info. Here's my (wife's) descent from her
(this assumes one accepts the Griffith Bowen-Margaret Fleming
connection) -- if you'd prefer dates, etc., I can add those
in. Sources for any particular generation available upon request.

(Obviously, almost all the Welsh-sounding names come from Peter
Batrum, Welsh genealogies, A.D. 300-1400 -- which was digitized *and
updated from the printed edition* into The Bartrum Project, at
http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/handle/2160/4026 )

And, of course, all additions/corrections/etc., are welcomed.


This path is through Margaret Fleming:

1. * Isabel / Elizabeth de Vermandois = * Baron Robert de Beaumont
1st Earl of Leicester
2. * Robert de Beaumont 2nd Earl of Leicester = Amicia de Montfort
3. William FitzRobert 2nd Earl of Gloucester = * Hawise de Beaumont
4. Richard de Clare 3rd Earl of Hertford = * Amice FitzRobert
Countess of Gloucester
5. Rhys Gryg ap Yr Arglwydd Rhys = * Joan de Clare
6. Gruffudd ap Cadwgon Fawr = *Jonet ferch Rhys Gryg
7. * Cadwgon ap Gruffudd = Catrin ferch Aron
8. * Gruffudd Dwnn ap Cadwgon = Annes ferch Cadwgon
9. * Henry Dwnn ap Gruffudd Dwnn = Annes ferch Ieaun Llywelyn
10. * Maredudd ap Henry Dwnn = Mallt ferch Gruffudd
(also: 10. Gwilym ap Philip = *Gwadlus ferch Henry Dwnn -- see below)
11. Gruffudd ap Nicholas = * Mabli ferch Maredudd
12. * Owain ap Gruffydd = Alison Malefant
13. William Barrett = * Elen ferch Owain
14. * William Barrett = Agnes ferch Philip ap Meredudd
15. * Henry Barrett = Catrin ferch Trahaearn ap Morgan
16. William Dawkin = * Margaret Barrett
17. * Jenkin Dawkins = Elizabeth Jenkin
18. Henry Fleming = * Alice Dawkins
19. Griffith Bowen = * Margaret Fleming
20. Benjamin Child = * Mary Bowen
21. Jacob Chamberlain = * Mary Child
22. Samuel Davis = * Mary Chamberlain
23. Elisha Rich = * Mary Davis
24. * Nathaniel Rich = Phebe Putnam
25. Jonathan Willson = * Mehitable Rich
26. * Jonathan Willson = Elizabeth (Betsey) Eager
27. * Henry Harrison Willson = Josephine Thankful Dimmick
28. * William Seward Willson = Elizabeth Gladys aka "Gladys Lillian" Foster
30. Donald Alvey Wallace = * Madeline Beth Willson
31. * William Robert Wallace = Jean Evonne Moorehead
32. * Susan Beth Wallace = Sholom Simon (me!)

=================
The following path is through Griffith Bowen:

1 thru 9 are the same as above
10. Gwilym ap Philip = *Gwadlus ferch Henry Dwnn
11. * Gwilym Fychan ap Gwilym = Margred ferch Thomas
12. * Thomas ap Gwilym Fychan = NN
13. Jenkin ap Ieuan = * Jonet (or Joan) ferch Thomas
14. * Owain (Owen) ap Jenkin = Alice ferch John of Llanfrynach
15. * Gruffudd Bowen = Anne Berry
16. * Philip Bowen = Elizabeth Vaughan
17. * Francis Bowen = Ellen Franklyn
18. * Griffith Bowen = Margaret Fleming (this is the same as line 19 above)

FWIW!

-- Sholom


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