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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2011-10 > 1319752810
From: Wjhonson <>
Subject: Re: More on the Ur Mother: Isabel (or Elizabeth) de Vermandois
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
References: <50110.1319752529@internode.on.net>
In-Reply-To: <50110.1319752529@internode.on.net>
Interesting the way our memories play tricks on us.
http://www.amazon.com/Source-James-Michener/dp/0449211479
When I saw you mention Tyre and Ur in the same paragraph my ears pricked up.
-----Original Message-----
From: merilyn.pedrick <>
To: Wanda Thacker <>; Johnny Brananas <>; gen-medieval <>; Leo <>
Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: Re: More on the Ur Mother: Isabel (or Elizabeth) de Vermandois
Dear Leo, Wander, Johnny et al
Years ago there was a book written by James Michener called "The
ource", which dealt with an archaeological dig in the Middle East at
r near Tyre. The story followed a young man and woman who were the
rchaeeologists on this dig (who inevitably fell in love and lived
appily ever after). Each level of the dig they reached contained a
amily from whom both of them were (unknowingly) descended, and when
hey eventually reached the bottom of the many civilizations who had
ived there, they discovered the habitation called "Ur" back in the
ays of the cave-man. It was fascinating, and the catylist for my
nterest in genealogy. So this is probably why Isabel de Vermandois is
eferred to as the "Ur Mother", because she is ancestor to so many of
s.
I descend from four of her children with Robert de Beaumont, and four
rom her marriage with William de Warenne. My children can claim a
ifth descent through Robert.
......... And talking of books.......... this is strictly OT and I
pologise for treading on any toes......... but there is a book being
ublished at the moment, which I commissioned an author to write. It
s a biography of my great great grandfather Alexander John Smith (who
s an Isabel de Vermandois descendant, so maybe it's not too OT).
When my aunt died about three years ago, her son and his wife
iscovered a great number of letters that he had written during his
ifetime back to his family in England. The first one was written in
830, three weeks after his 18th birthday, and the last one in 1872,
hree weeks before he died.
I asked my cousins if I could transcribe the letters, and that took
ver a year. When I got to the end I realised that his life had been
ar too interesting to be read just by his family, so I commissioned
n Emeritus Professor of History at Newcastle University in NSW to
rite his biography. His name is John Ramsland, and he has made the
ook a rollicking good read. Think Master and Commander ++. The book
s called "From Antarctica tot the Goldrushes: in the Wake of the
rebus". It covers Alexander's life in the Royal Navy, including the
xpedition to Antarctica 1839-1843 in the Erebus and Terror, then a
tint in Tasmania at the Rossbank Observatory, then several years as
ommissioner of the Goldfields at Castlemaine in Victoria, then his
areer as a Member of Parliament, and his life as a successful
razier.
If anyone is interested in buying a book I can send you an order form
he book is $26.99 plus postage.
Best wishes
Merilyn Pedrick
Aldgate, South Australia, but currently in sunny California staying
ith my son.
On Fri 28/10/11 7:22 AM , "Leo" sent:
No it is not a stupid question. I think someone took that
escription
because Isabel (Elizabeth) de Vermandois is the ancestor of SO many
eople.
My data base in this regards is far from complete, but over 10
enerations I
have 3.569 descendants. One of these is Philippa the wife of Edward
II of
England. If you then imagine the number of their descendants recorded
n
Ruvigny's Blood Royal, the number of all descendants to the present
s just
so enormous.
In 1929 a book was published which in 1979 was again published by the
Genealogical Publishing Co in Baltimore. It was compiled by David
tarr
Jordan and Sarah Louise Kimball with the not very illuminating title
f
"Your Family Tree".
The genealogy I skipp, but the foreword "Scientific Aspects of
enealogy" I
think is just superb. It has lots of interesting sayings (from all
inds of
origins) but one segment is called "The Kimball Chart" (compiled by
arah
Louise Kimball). "This chart, far too large for reproduction, gives a
fragment of the list of descendants of Isabel de Vermandois, a Norman
ady
born about 1070, who died on February 13, 1131, in the reign of King
enry I
of England." To capture a few further remarks :
Through six separate strains descended from Charlemagne.
while her mother was a descendant of Alfred the Great
It should also be noted that a very large (although indefinable)
ercentage
of British and American families of marked originalitgy and energy
re
descended from Isabel.
This foreword also explains the opinion that anyone with Anglo-Saxon
lood
descends from William the Conqueror. However, as always, it is hard
n most
cases to have the records to prove it.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wanda Thacker"
To: "Johnny Brananas" ;
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: More on the Ur Mother: Isabel (or Elizabeth) de
ermandois
> At the risk of asking a stupid question, why are you referring to
sabel
> as "the Ur Mother?"
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johnny Brananas
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: More on the Ur Mother: Isabel (or Elizabeth) de
ermandois
>
>> Does anybody else's come through 8 generations of a matrilineal
ine
>> at the bottom?
>
> I forgot that my cousin Sally Hamblen Hill's daughter would
epresent
> an extension of this female line to the 9th generation.
>
>
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