GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2011-11 > 1321238008
From: Wjhonson <>
Subject: Re: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:33:28 -0500 (EST)
Thomas Carpenter's will is dated and proved in 1776, not 1767
From: Johnny Brananas <>
To: gen-medieval <>
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 12:33 pm
Subject: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves
Some may remember my posting on the Redgrave family's line from the
gentry Carpenters of Tillington, Herefordshire. There was a confusing
gap in the known pedigree, falling between "John Carpenter [who]
married _circa_1638 Catherine, sole dau. and heir. of James Smyth ...
[and their] great-grandson Thomas Carpenter, died in 1767, leaving ...
a daughter and heiress Catherine, who married William
Taylor ..." (Catherine [Carpenter] Taylor being a known ancestress of
actress Rachel Kempson, wife of Michael Redgrave).
I think I've figured out that the uncertain part of the line must go:
John Carpenter = Catherine Smyth
Thomas Carpenter (1640-1718) = Anne Rodd (1639-1707)
Thomas Carpenter = Catherine Fortescue, widow of Nicholas Buckeridge
Thomas Carpenter (1704-1767) = Sarah Tyler
William Henry Cooke, ed., _Collections Towards the History and
Antiquities of the County of Hereford in Continuation of Duncumb's
History_, 3:54, elaborates on the statement of descent above:
"Katherine [Smith], who married in 1638, John, fourth son of Thomas
Carpenter of the Homme in Dilwyn. Being left a widow in 1642, she
married Humphrey Tomkyns, a merchant in London; and in 1652, she had
Mr. (afterwards, Sir) William Gregory of Woolhope for her third
husband and died his widow in 1700, at the age of 82 years. Her
estate in this parish [Tillington], passed to her eldest son, Thomas
Carpenter, whose grandson [? sic; probably son], Thomas C., was
sheriff of the county in 1723; and on the death of his only son,
Thomas C., in 1776, Tillington was inherited by his sister, Catherine,
wife of William Taylor ..."
So there were a bunch of Thomas Carpenters in a row, and these
monumental inscriptions in Cooke continuation help flesh out the line:
--Thomas Carpenter, of Tillington Court, Gent., [died] 1718, aged 78.
--Anne, his wife, dau. of Thomas Rodd, Esq., of Foxley, [died] 1707,
aged 68, leaving four children, Ann, Catherine, Thomas, and Margaret
--Thomas Carpenter, of Tillington Court, Esq., [died] 1767, aged 63.
Sarah, his wife, [died] 1772, aged 57.
I admit to a little uncertainty about the Thomas who fell between
these two, but I found a snippet on Google books that says ...
"Nicholas, the fourth son of Edmund Buckeridge, married Catherine, one
of the daughters of Francis and Joyce Fortescue. She afterwards
married Thomas Carpenter of Tillington, Hereford."
Nicholas Buckeridge and Catherine Fortescue had a London marriage
licence dated 1691...
... and there is also a PCC will for a Nicholas Buckeridge, Merchant
of the city of London, which was proved in March 1702. This brief
will was made about the time of the 1691 marriage licence, mentions a
wife Catherine, and was never updated before being proved in 1702. It
therefore seems very likely that this widow Catherine went on to marry
Thomas Carpenter the next year and was indeed mother to Thomas
Carpenter who died aged 63 in 1767 -- i.e., was born 1704.
The royal line would come in behind Anne Rodd, wife of the first
Thomas Carpenter. A pedigree chart in Cooke (p. 189) shows her as a
daughter of Thomas Rodd of Foxley, by his first wife, Anne, daughter
of Sir Thomas [sic] Whitney. I believe instead that Thomas Whitney
was her _brother_ and that Sir Robert Whitney and Anne Lucy, his wife,
were her parents.
The "hard" part of the Redgraves' royal line would therefore be:
Sir Robert Whitney = Anne Lucy
Anne Whitney = Thomas Rodd
Anne Rodd = Thomas Carpenter
Thomas Carpenter = Catherine (Fortescue) Buckeridge
Thomas Carpenter = Sarah Tyler
Catherine Carpenter = William Taylor
Catherine Taylor = Thomas Jay
James Jay = Sarah Jane Robinson
Julia Madeleine Jay = Frederick Robertson Kempson
Eric William Edward Kempson = Beatrice Hamilton Ashwell
Rachel Kempson = Michael Redgrave
The source for Sarah Jane (not Julia) Robinson, daughter of James and
Jane (Buchanan) Robinson, as the wife of James Jay, Esq., of Litley
Court is _The Buchanans of Blairlusk & America_, though the date of
their marriage given there is probably not correct (see near top of
this link: http://ied.dippam.ac.uk/records/26320 ).
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|Re: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves by Wjhonson <>|