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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2011-11 > 1321338543


From: Wjhonson <>
Subject: Re: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:29:03 -0500 (EST)
References: <0bf68183-21e4-419d-8a1d-0f7feb73fb56@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com><8CE708CED051FE3-2BC4-60299@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com><8CE708F2C461B4D-2BC4-6062B@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com><8CE70936B6F77D6-2BC4-60CBF@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com><8CE7094AF41E266-2BC4-60EC6@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com><8CE70960FBB3099-2BC4-61135@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com><8CE7098C16934D5-2BC4-6157D@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com><mailman.21.1321256304.23759.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><mailman.1.1321283727.10677.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><7558ef56-2f47-42f3-820f-bdb5082a8275@k10g2000yqn.googlegroups.com><72e00fb8-aa2f-4f3a-8c2a-e45300b0a393@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com><1bb16d42-7cae-4fd1-9f38-c337f6832536@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com><99e2aed9-d595-4cc5-9a1a-381b25f22dca@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com><5032fe1d-d6e5-4917-9301-65c0f6dea699@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com><0c49adb5-3eb8-4f6a-9c3a-61a11d33c892@p7g2000pre.googlegroups.com><8CE716E08C49603-2BC4-810C7@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com> <8CE7170C3706FA6-2BC4-81518@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <8CE7170C3706FA6-2BC4-81518@webmail-m136.sysops.aol.com>


I found Anna, the wife of Thomas whose deed Joyce used even though she knew it was false.... or something

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=005-dx702800&cid=52-1&kw=tidmarsh#52-1









-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <>
To: wjhonson <>; jhigginsgen <>; gen-medieval <>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves


I'd say Joyce must be at Tidmarsh because of her Livingstone dead husband? Right?

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z8YHAAAAQAAJ&dq=tidmarsh%20berks%20goddard&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=true







-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <>
To: jhigginsgen <>; gen-medieval <>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves





http://books.google.com/books?id=PzPfIuEk4LoC&dq=edmund%20buckeridge&pg=PA8#v=onepage&q=edmund%20buckeridge&f=true





-----Original Message-----
From: John <>
To: gen-medieval <>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: Royal ancestry of the Redgraves


On Nov 14, 2:30 pm, John <> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 1:20 pm, John <> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 14, 7:33 am, Johnny Brananas <> wrote:
>
> > > Francis Fortescue was the second son of Sir Nicholas Fortescue of
> > > Cookhill, Worcestershire, Chamberlain of the Exchequer.
>
> > >http://books.google.com/books?id=OaxCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA317&dq=%22francis+...
>
> > A version of Lord Clermont's history of the Fortescues, referenced in
> > this link to "Chester of Chicheley", is on-line at the BYU library
> > website. Although it may not be exactly the version cited by Chester
> > Waters, it has a fair amount of information about Sir Nicholas
> > Fortescue, Chamberlain of the Exchequer, and his ancestry. But it has
> > very little about his son Francis, mentioning only his first wife
> > Frances Peyton but not his second wife Joyce. There are royal lines
> > behind the 1st wife Frances Peyton.
>
> > Vivian's edition of the visitations of Devon also has information on
> > the earlier Fortescues in this line, but it stops with the grandfather
> > of Sir Nicholas, another Nicholas who was groom to Henry VIII.
>
> Looking more closely at both Lord Clermont's history of the Fortescues
> and the account of Francis Fortescue in Chester Waters' "Chester of
> Chicheley" suggests that there may be problems with the identification
> of Francis the son of Sir Nicholas the Chamberlain of the Exchequer
> and husband of Alice Peyton as the same Francis who married Joyce NN
> and was father of Catherine Fortescue. And there may be another
> Francis Fortescue who is perhaps the one who married Joyce.
>
> Catherine Fortescue was said earlier in this thread to have been born
> ca. 1665 (aged 26 at her 1st marriage in 1691, and her 2nd husband
> Thomas carpenter was also born in 1665). Francis the son of Sir
> Nicholas the Chamberlain was probably born ca. 1605 (his next elder
> brother William d. Jan 1619 aged 46) and Francis himself was admitted
> to Inner Temple 1616 (seems pretty young for that). He also had a son
> Nicholas born in 1639 (see Chester Waters). So Francis would have
> been around 60 when Catherine was born in 1665 - possible, but
> something of s stretch. And Lord Clermont gives Frances only one
> wife, not two.
>
> Francis son of Sir Nicholas also had a cousin Francis, son of John,
> younger brother of Sir Nicholas. Even less information is given about
> this second Francis by Lord Clermont, except that he married (wife not
> named) and had a son Francis (a Catholic priest) and two daughters
> (not including Catherine).
>
> Chester Waters seems to be the only source so far identified that says
> that Francis Fortescue married both Alice Peyton and Joyce NN. I
> wonder if he may possibly have conflated two Francis Fortescues into
> one. Unfortumately neither Lord Clermont nor Chester Waters provides
> particuarly good sources.

And here are two more Francis Fortescues to add to the puzzle;
http://books.google.com/books?id=ECoEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA57

Francis Fortescue who married Frances Peyton apparently had an elder
son Francis, and Francis' elder brother William also had a son
Francis. If either of these Francises lived to adulthood and married,
they would be chronologically more likely to be the father of our
Catherine Fortescue.

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