GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2011-12 > 1324511003
From: "Janet Wolfe" <>
Subject: RE: Barnardiston Descent from Edward III?
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:43:23 -0500
John, thanks for the clarifications and for the citation to the Lucas
Genealogy by Annabelle Kemp. I ordered it from interlibrary loan to read
next year. Does Kemp quote the IPM of Thomas Morieux, or is it published
somewhere? (I'll be pleased if the John of Gaunt descent for the Lucas wife
is firmly contradicted.) Various versions of the Lucas pedigree give the
Lucas wife's father's name as John or Thomas Morieux. Chronologically, I
think it would make sense for the Lucas wife to have belonged to an earlier
generation of the Morieux family.
On Dec 21, 10:12 am, "Janet Wolfe" <> wrote:
> In addition to the Barnardiston descent from Edward I via Mary
> Knightley, I have noticed that published pedigrees and several other
> works provide a descent for the Barnardiston family from Edward III.
> 1. John of Gaunt with Marie de Saint Hilaire de Hainault 2. Blanche
> married about 1381 Thomas Morieux of Thorp Morieux, Cosford, Suffolk
> 3. Elizabeth Morieux married Edmund Lucas of Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
> 4. John Lucas married Maud or Christian Brampton, daughter of Walter
> Brampton 5. Edmund Lucas 5. John Lucas 6. Thomas Lucas married
> Elizabeth Kemys, daughter of John Kemys of Raglan, Monmouthshire,
> Wales 7. Anne Lucas married Thomas Barnardiston
> I have not yet studied all of the claims in this pedigree but
> secondary sources quote documents discussing generation 2 (and
> distinguish this Blanche from Katherine Swynford's daughter of the same
> The Barnardiston pedigree continues as follows:
> 8. Thomas Barnardiston married Mary Walsingham, daughter of Edmund
> Walsingham (Lieutenant of the Tower, see History of Parliament) 9.
> Thomas Barnardiston married Elizabeth Hanchet, daughter of Thomas
> 10. Thomas Barnardiston married Mary Knightley, etc.
For information on the Lucas family line, see "Lucas Genealogy", by
Annabelle Kemp (1964). Among other things, this discusses the ownership of
properties by the Lucases which appears to confirm the visitation pedigree
of the family.
The problem with this descent, however, is in the connection to John of
Gaunt. The Lucas visitation pedigree says that Edmund Lucas (living ca.
1359) married Elizabeth, daughter of Sir John Morieux - not Sir Thomas. Sir
Thomas didn't marry the natural daughter of John of Gaunt until 1381, and he
died in 1387 without issue (his heir was his sister). I don't what the
connection, if any, was between Sir John and Sir Thomas Morieux, but Sir
Thomas was clearly not the ancestor of the Lucas family.