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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2012-01 > 1325726536


From: Peter Stewart <>
Subject: Re: Who was Count Wilhem V of Julich`s mother ?
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:22:16 +1100
References: <979d.685e480b.3c2ce573@aol.com><mailman.3.1325113533.13462.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><91d25e8e-32f8-4303-a0b1-440c9bc29d45@k10g2000yqk.googlegroups.com><mailman.13.1325191230.9319.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><29266cbe-8d3f-4777-aa9b-2f08373f238a@p42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com><4F04C9F0.8060002@optusnet.com.au>
In-Reply-To: <4F04C9F0.8060002@optusnet.com.au>


On 5/01/2012 8:51 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:
> On 4/01/2012 6:46 AM, Volucris wrote:
<snip>

>> Your words not mine. Onomastics were applied as an unwritten tradition
>> in the timeframe mentioned in the Germanic area (Holy German Empire)
>> and nothing you say will change my mind on the subject.
> I don't suppose there is much point in engaging in discussion with a
> mind that is so determinedly closed on the subject, but perhaps if Hans
> won't oblige us someone else could try to meet this challenge:
>
> If this "unwritten tradition" was concrete enough to be of use to
> genealogists in the absence of other evidence, it cannot be unwriteable.
> I defy anyone to formulate a meaningful code of naming practice that was
> verifiably applied in West and/or East Frankish societies during the
> period of 500 years from 750 to 1250. It can be simply set out for any
> individual by tracing the ancestral or collateral precedent for his or
> her name across any number of generations in coded form using:
>
> F = father
> M = mother
> U = uncle
> A = aunt
> C = cousin (covering all degrees/removes, no need to specify)
>
> For instance, someone named after his maternal great-grandfather's
> cousin (allowing for a gap in recorded information to the last) would be
> listed as MFFC. If a similar pattern (it does not have to be identical,
> allowing for anonymous dead infants, etc) can be demonstrated over five
> generations in five different families, we would have at least a basis
> for further discussion. Royal and imperial families are probably the
> best place to start looking for well-enough documented lineages, but any
> rank will do.
>
> Peter Stewart
>

It may need to be added that there is no point in posting a
five-generation series of cherry-picked individuals, such as a line of
eldest sons - this discussion was prompted by the name of a younger son,
and any meaningful pattern must cover all the definitely recorded
individuals in a lineage. However, if it is easier to exclude female
names, a pattern of only male names in five families over five
generations could be a useful staring point for examining the strength
of any unwritten tradition or "taboo" involved.

Peter Stewart

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