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From: Douglas Richardson <>
Subject: Re: Origin of Sir John Say (died 1478),Speaker of the House of Commons
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 20:23:17 -0800 (PST)
References: <617a9736-eac3-4d5b-a87c-0d3e20bc01cd@h12g2000yqg.googlegroups.com><mailman.5.1325628968.25919.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com><9dc8a74c-3287-4604-b584-e1e9eb3f3d6f@h12g2000yqg.googlegroups.com><mailman.10.1325640289.25919.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>


Dear Janet (and others) ~

I found another image on AALT which pertains to the 1447 lawsuit of
John Roberdes and Alice his wife, widow and executrix of John Say, of
Podington, Bedfordshire. The weblink is provided below:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no744/bCP40no744dorses/IMG_1475.htm

Elsewhere I note that there is a reference to John Say, Esquire, of
Podington, Bedfordshire in the published 1568 Visitation of London,
pp. 80-81.

According to the snippet views of this visitation, John Say, of
Podington, Bedfordshire married a daughter of Colbroke and had issue a
son Robert Saye. This family is traced for several generations in the
pedigree which follows.

https://www.google.com/#pq=podington+john+say&hl=en&ds=bo&cp=39&gs_id=kw&xhr=t&q=Visitation+Poddington+John+Say+Colbroke&tok=jDTTrJiC_xm8tH6p7mfcxA&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&tbm=bks&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Visitation+Poddington+John+Say+Colbroke&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=fd15e019f456dc4d&biw=1366&bih=609

http://books.google.com/books?ei=OGYKT8raFuTRiAKE98miCQ&sqi=2&id=wF9mAAAAMAAJ&dq=Visitation+Poddington+John+Say&q=Robert+Say#search_anchor

According to the London visitation, the arms of the Say family of
Podington, Bedfordshire were: Per pale azure and gules, three chevrons
argent voided counter-changed.

According to VCH Hertford 3 (1912): 438, the arms of Sir John Say
(died 1478), of Broxbourne, Hertfordshire were: Party azure and gules
three cheverons or voided gules and azure).

I assume it is due to the similarity of arms that people have assumed
that John Say, of Podington, Bedfordshire, might be the father of Sir
John Say (died 1478), of Broxbourne, Hertfordshire. I don't know if
the John Say who heads the London visitation pedigree is the same
person as John Say, of Podington, living 1442, who left a widow,
Alice, but if so, the visitation might be an indication that Alice was
a Colbroke by birth.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah



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