Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2012-02 > 1329294603

From: Peter Stewart <>
Subject: Re: Parentage of Clémence de Mayenne, wife of Robert de Sablé
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:30:03 +1100
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In-Reply-To: <>

On 15/02/2012 5:37 AM, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> Below is a transcript of the charter dated 1205 which Marguerite [des
> Roches], lady of Sablé, states she has made a grant at the request of
> her uncle [avunculi], Juhel de Mayenne. This is the charter cited by
> Charles Cawley which proves that Marguerite's mother, Clémence de
> Mayenne, was the sister of Juhel de Mayenne.

Why on earth would you rely on Cawley to find the most direct evidence
for this? How many times do you need to be warned that he gathers data
at haphazard?

In this case you have apparently overlooked the foundation charter of
Bois-Renou (later Notre-Dame du Parray-Neuf) in which her husband Robert
IV of Sablé stated that Clementia had been given Agon in the Cotentin by
her brother Juhel, lord of Mayenne who was living in 1189.

Ménage was misled by the poor copy he had available, so that his wrong
presumption could not be definitely disproved by a charter of Marguerite
naming her "avunculus" Juhel without further identifying him.

If you are working from primary sources you should be able to sort this
out for yourself.

Peter Stewart

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