GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2012-02 > 1329325210


From: antoine barbry <>
Subject: Re: articles from English Historical Review. volume 28. 1913
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 09:00:10 -0800 (PST)
References: <1329316547.28571.YahooMailNeo@web161204.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><001f01ccec01$d99f4d00$8cdde700$@edu>
In-Reply-To: <001f01ccec01$d99f4d00$8cdde700$@edu>


Thank you Janet,

This is exactly the abstract I was looking for in the second article! Bladwin of Ostrewic was my ancestor and I discovered today that he was possessing lands in England.

best regards,

Antoine Barbry



________________________________
From: Janet Wolfe <>
To: 'antoine barbry' <>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: articles from English Historical Review. volume 28. 1913

I think the part you want is the first page and a half of the second
article:

The Debtors of William Cade
THE interesting and apparently unique document contributed by Mr. Hilary
Jenkinson in the last number of this Review[1] invites further comments. In
the first place, as to Cade himself, the Christian names of his family point
to his Flemish origin. His brother Baldwin occurs in a charter calendared by
me;[2] to his son Eustace land was granted in Navenby, Lincolnshire, by a
charter (of 1163-6) edited by me,[3] and there was another son, unmentioned
by Mr. Jenkinson. This was Ernald, Ernaud, or Arnulf,[4] who gave lands in
Kent to the Hospitallers.[5] The gift is of importance, for the places are
Stalisfield (south-south-west of Faversham) and Oare-not the manor of Ores
(or Greys) in Chislet-(north-north-west of Faversham). Among the debtors of
William Cade we find (1. 158) 'Lefwinus de Ores xvj marcas et x solidos et
iiij denarios (Et sicut dicunt hec sunt de firma et de placitis de ores),'
and ' Lefwinus de ores x marcas ' (1. 161). I suggest that this was the
English bailiff of William Cade himself at Oare, and that his occurrence as
a witness to a Chilham charter, under Stephen,[6] may be accounted for by
his holding land in that district. I would also suggest that' the Arnulf or
Ernulf Cade, who was appointed one of the keepers of the royal manor of
Ospring in the same district in 1240,7 was the namesake and descendant of
William's Kentish son. With regard to William's surname,[8] it is no more
peculiar than those of 'cape' or 'case' among his debtors, and I do not see
why it should have been 'pronounced as a disyllable '. Mr. Jenkinson
observes (p. 217, n. 29) that 'the Red Book gives ... a genitive Cadae ',
but the diphthong there is due to the editor. The 'Flemish connexions ' of
William Cade are underrated by Mr. Jenkinson. He states (p. 210) that the
document has 'thirteen entries (relating) to Flanders, five to Pont Audemer'
(in Normandy). But these five are all annotated 'apud sanctum audomarum',
which, of course, was not Pont Audemer, but St. Omer, then in Flanders.
Indeed, entries in 11. 145 and 180, which evidently refer to men named in
the St. Omer entries, are annotated 'in flandria'. There are some
indications of connexion with Boulogne and the 'Honour' of its counts, the
inheritance of Stephen's queen. Not only are 'the men of Boulogne' among
William's debtors, but also important tenants on the Boulogne fief, such as
(23) Pharamus of Boulogne, holding Martock, (14) Henry 'de Campania',
holding Westerham and Fobbing, (48) William de Norwich, who was doubtless
identical with that William de Norwich who had held seven fees of the
'Honour',[9] and (69) Baldwin 'de Ermingeham', who had pledged Shopland
(Essex), a Boulogne manor, to William for ten years from 27 May 1162. This
man's name is, at first sight, a puzzle, for Shopland was held by the family
which took its name from 'Ostrewic' (i.e. Austruy) and were, as lords of
Austruy, constables of the counts of Boulogne. But Austruy, which is now a
farm in Retz, is only some three miles from Herlingehem, which appears in a
charter of 1157 as 'Herminigehem'. There can therefore, I think, be little
doubt that both were held by this Baldwin in William's list. The prior 'de
sancte Joce', who is also found in it, represents that abbey of St. Josse to
which a count of Boulogne had given land at Norton in England.

1 Ante, pp. 208-27. 2 Calendar of Documents, France, p. 505. 3 Ancient
Charters (Pipe Roll Soc.), p. 65. 4 These forms were used indifferently
(Geoffrey de Mandeville, pp. 228, 454). The name is associated with the
counts of Guines; ' Eraldus', count of Guines, is a witness with William
Cade to Richard de Luci's charter, and ' Ernulfo nepote comitis de Gidnes '
a witness with him to that of Gervase de Cornhill (Calendar of Documents,
France, p. 505). 5 'Ex dono Eraudi Cade filii Willelmi Cade Stanefeld et
Ores cum pertinentiis suis' (Rotuli Chartarum, i. 16). 6 Calendar of
Documents, France, p. 483. 7 E Erulpho Cade' (Testa, p. 219). The entry is
unindexed. He also appears as 'Emoldus Cate' (a juror) on the previous page.
On the Charter Roll he is ' Arnulfus Cade' of Ospring (Calendar, i. 318). 8
( Cabus', mentioned by Mr. Jenkinson (p. 214), is a known and distinct name.
9 Testa, p. 273.  He lurks, unsuspected,  as a tenant-in-chief  in the
Cartae baronum of  1166.

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of antoine barbry
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:36 AM
To: gen med
Subject: articles from English Historical Review. volume 28. 1913

Dear all,

Would anyone have access the following two articles:
James F. Willard "The taxes upon movables of the reign of Edward I" English
Historical Review (1913) volume XXVIII pages 517-521
J. H. Round "The debtors of William Lade" English Historical Review (1913)
volume XXVIII pages 522-527

I am looking for very specific information about Baldwin of Osterwic's
family having possessions in Boulogne county and Sussex, and I would prefer
not to spend 25USD per article just for the few lines I am looking for...

Thank you for your assistance

Best regards

antoine barbry

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message


This thread: