GEN-MEDIEVAL-L ArchivesArchiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2012-05 > 1337350389
From: Stewart Baldwin <>
Subject: Re: Hildegarde to Visigoths--dubious, please debunk
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:13:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Matt Ahlgren <> wrote:
>This lineage is in highly unlikely given I lifted it from Wikipedia
>(none of whose sources are available online), but I'm wondering if
>someone can briefly explain where it fails. What is the weakest link?
>Theodemir = Erelieva
>Amalaberga = Hermanfrid
>Rodelinda = Audoin
>(unnamed?) brother of Albion, King of the Lombards
>Gisulf I of Friuli
>Gisulf II of Friuli
>(daughter) = a (nameless?) King of Bavaria
>Fara of Bavaria = Theodo IV
>Theodo V = Regintrude
>(daughter) = Gotfried of Allemania
>Emma = Gerold of Vinzgau
>Hildegarde = Charlemagne
>I have also heard it suggested (I forget where) that Fara may descend
>from Waldrada and, through the Gepids, to the first Gepid king
>"traditionally" (according to Settipani) a son-in-law of Attila the
>Is there anything to this? Where does the ancestry of Theodo V become
The ancestry of Hildegarde can be regarded as solidly documented only back to her grandfather Nebi. The next two generations before that (Huoching and Gottfried) are based on a reasonably good ninth century source, and are probably also OK, but there are significant concerns about those two generations that would require a detailed discussion. There is no direct evidence regarding Gottfried's wife or wives. The suggestion that he was married to a daughter of duke Theodo (II not V) is based on a string of conjectures:
1. It has been conjectured that duke Odilo of Bavaria was a son of Gottfried. This conjecture has been accepted by many scholars, and I am inclined to regard it as probably true, but the evidence is not that strong.
2. Assuming that the first conjecture is correct, it has been conjectured on top of that that Odilo's mother was an Agilolfing, in order to explain his possession of the duchy of Bavaria and to explain the Agilolfing name that he gave to his son Thassilo.
3. Assuming that the second conjecture is correct, it has been conjectured on top of that that Gottfried's wife was a daughter of Theodo II, Agilolfing duke of Bavaria. Based on the same string of guesses, Settipani has conjectured that Gottfried's wife was a sister of Theodo rather than his daughter. Although both conjectures are based on very slender evidence, Settipani's version is chronologically more plausible.
To accept the above line, you would have to accept all of the above string of conjectures, and accept in addition that Huoching and Odilo had the same mother, when we have no evidence whether or not Gottfried was married more than once.
The part above Gottfried is a mess. I'm not sure why Theodo I and Theodo II have been given the numbers IV and V. There is no evidence regarding the parentage of either Theodo I or Theodo II. Fara was a male, not a female. His alleged connection to the Theodos is a conjecture based entirely on the fact that the source mentioning him calls him an Agilolfing.
|Re: Hildegarde to Visigoths--dubious, please debunk by Stewart Baldwin <>|