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------------------------------ GEN-NEWBIE-D DigestVolume 97 : Issue 36 Today's Topics: THANKS JEAN & TERRY!!! [ (judith murphy) ] FTW family group sheets [ (We R. Searching) ] re zip files [ "M. W. Holling" < ] Re: FTW family group sheets [ Jo Garzelloni <> ] Post game [ (Harry Huntsman ] Re: Family treemaker [ ] NR on 1900 census [ Shirley Moser <> ] Printing Problem [ (Debbie ] Gendex [ Dennis Gantley <> ] Check That Date! [ "Jean R. Legried" < ] [Fwd: Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Questi [ Jeanette Ford <> ] Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question [ Jeanette Ford <> ] Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question [ Jeanette Ford <> ] Indians [ Jeanette Ford <> ] Re: NR on 1900 census [ ] Re: THANKS JEAN & TERRY!!! [ (Vicky Bair) ] Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question [ ] Another SS puzzle [ E or K <> ] Lessons??? [ Chip & Terri Tosh < ] web software [ (David E Moran) ] Re: Is there a Massachusetts newsgro [ ELLIE HANDLEY <> ] Halbert's Family Registry [ Judi Montgomery < ] Proof [ (Ruth Barton) ] Re: Lessons??? [ Mark Merritt < ] Re: Halbert's Family Registry [ Laurel Egenberger < ] Re: Halbert's Family Registry [ Mark Merritt < ] Re: zip file [ Paul Dupuy <> ] Re: zip file [ ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: (judith murphy) Subject: THANKS JEAN & TERRY!!! I would like to take this time to thank Jean for the wonderful lessons and the time she put in preparing them. Bravo! Also to thank Terry for starting this mail list -- although it occasionally gets offtrack I think everyone learns something -- including the oldies, such as myself, who monitor this newbie board to help them. It has been wonderful dialogue most of the time, and so many wonderful things (new urls to check out on the web, addresses to write for railroad information, plus) have come our way. (APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE AND 3 CHEERS FOR THEM!!!) Thank you both, Judy M. >Morning everyone. >I'm getting messages from many of you asking about Lesson #7. Well, the >genealogy class was a series of six (6) lessons, and the last one was >January 17. If you've misplaced (lost, deleted, etc) any of your lessons, >and you have web access, you'll find links to all 6 lessons at: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~newbie > >If you don't have web access, drop me a note and I'll forward the lost >lesson to you. If you've lost them all and need all 6, please tell me if >there is a limit to the size of a message that you can receive. > >Now, let's have a rousing cheer for those terrific Green Bay Packers!!!! > >Terry > >Terry Beck, Reference Coordinator >Morton Grove Public Library >http://www.nslsilus.org/mgkhome/ >Morton Grove, IL (847) >965-4220 > >Opinions expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect >official Library policy. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 08:34:50 PST From: (We R. Searching) Subject: FTW family group sheets Does anyone know how to copy family group sheets in FTW into txt or wps files so I can attach them to email? Thanks, EB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:06:31 -0800 From: "M. W. Holling" <> Subject: re zip files Thank you to everyone who responded to my question of how to open a zipped file. I downloaded winzip and it worked great. Thank you again everyone for being so helpful. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:18:13 -0500 From: Jo Garzelloni <> Subject: Re: FTW family group sheets We R. Searching wrote: > > Does anyone know how to copy family group sheets in FTW into txt > or wps files so I can attach them to email? Thanks, EB ================================================================ See if this works. works for me, josie These are the 2 ways to make Family Tree Maker into text. I got so many people asking that if I found out if I could pass it on so I am sending this to all the lists to Just select "COPY". This puts it in your clipboard. Then minimize FTM (don't close it). Then open your word processor to a blank page. Then PASTE. If you have version 3.4 selecting genealogy report from the veiw menu and choosing export from the file menu will allow you to save as formatted text as well as other options. I'm not sure about previous versions. Hope this help others as well. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:05:22 -0800 From: (Harry Huntsman) Subject: Post game Hi Joan and Duane: I wondered if you ever received my e-mail of last week in which I mentioned the game, the cousins and a pen pal I have been contacting. Well for some reason or other I think everyone in the United States received it because I really goofed as GEN-NEWBIE received it and I got a lot of flak because it went on a general mailing list. It must of been that GEN-N was highlighted and although the mail was addressed to you everyone read your mail. I did predict GB would win by 14 points, like I knew something but everyone had them a big winner. Hope you had an enjoyable day! Bitter cold today and the fireplace feels pretty good. Hope all is well with the Tharp family. Ciao Harry Harry Huntsman --- A Subscriber at Techline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:18:00 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: Family treemaker Hi Cliff, I just saw your offer to look up names In Kentucky--I only have a name and approximate birthday--Thomas Jefferson WARE- born Kentucky abt 1825-he married a Barbara MAUL in California -and was there in the 1850 census--any info would be appreciated--this is a big mystery who his parents were. TIA Dorene at ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: Shirley Moser <> Subject: NR on 1900 census While studying the 1900 census... I found an "odd" child living with my grandparents. Beside his name was the letters NR. Does anyone know what this means? Shirley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 11:19:05 PST From: (Debbie Lindale) Subject: Printing Problem Hello Everyone I am having some trouble with my printer. When ever I want to print something up it is wasting a lot of paper. I use the print preview and it shows how it is going to print. When I print it, the first pages prints, then on the second page it will print 6-8 lines and then go on to a third page. I have checked the printer setup and the page setup and everything looks fine. Any help would be appreciated. Debbie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:07:17 -0500 From: Dennis Gantley <> Subject: Gendex Hi, Has anyone tried www.gendex.com? Someone suggested it but I just cannot get into the site. Just has me going in circles. Merry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:20:07 -0600 From: "Jean R. Legried" <> Subject: Check That Date! Hey, Newbies ------ It has exhilarating to read the messages asking about Lesson 7! I'm glad that I'm missed! The lessons must have done some good because I am seeing fewer how-to messages and more that include surnames and genealogy subjects that I didn't cover (such as SSDI). That means you are learning :) The following message is something that was too long to include with a lesson but is an item that I feel needs to be read by genealogists of all ages. Dates have always been a problem and they will always be a problem. Enjoy! CHECK THAT DATE! Although it is an exhilarating experience to discover a date long sought in genealogy, how valid is this newly-found date? For years, professional genealogists have been insistent about the pitfalls of accepting at face value any date recorded anywhere. Never, they say, rely upon a single source. Accept as truth only a date which has proof from many sources. An interesting study was conducted in Alpena County, Michigan, involving death records. The purpose was to prove or disprove the cautious stand taken by genealogists about questioning all dates unless several sources agree. For the years 1865 to 1879, 661 deaths had been recorded in Alpena County in one or more of the following sources: one, "Death Book A," located in Alpena County Courthouse; two, cemetery stones found in three cemeteries; and three, death notices printed in the ALPENA WEEKLY ARGUS, a newspaper in that county. Courthouse records only began in 1871, so the years for the study included 1871-1879. Of the 661 recorded deaths from 1865 to 1879, 523 were recorded in only one of the three sources given above; 114 deaths were recorded in two of the three sources; and only 24 were recorded in all three sources. Of the 114 deaths with two sources, 15 were not used because the cemetery stones gave only the year of death, or the courthouse record lacked the day of death. It should be noted that the deaths studied were recorded deaths only. There would be no way to study the total number of deaths, as many were not recorded. The interesting results of the test were as follows: * Of 30 deaths recorded in both the courthouse and the ARGUS, only 15 had the same dates. * Of 19 deaths recorded in the cemeteries and the ARGUS, only six had the same dates. * Of 44 deaths recorded in both the cemeteries and the courthouse, 18 had the same date. And finally, * Of 24 deaths recorded in all three sources, only six had the same date. It would seem that, of the 661 recorded deaths, only the six which were recorded exactly the same in all three sources could be accepted as truth. It seems to follow that family historians cannot depend on finding accurate information by using just one source. As far as possible, researchers should check all available sources in a community. It will always be necessary to take into account the human errors made by the clerk, the typesetter, the stone engraver, and the person providing the information. So, when that long-sought-for date is found, suppress the exuberance! The door has just been opened, slightly. Question everything you read or find! (Abstracted from "Documenting Your Research" by Stan Beck, from FAMILY TRAILS by the Michigan Department of Education, Vol. 6, No. 2, Winter 1979; by way of the WHITE BEAR LAKE (MN) GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY NEWSLETTER, Vol. 2, No. 11, Sept. 1980) Jean R. Legried, CGRS Norwegian-American research specialist from southern Minnesota "Life is the rosebud, Eternity the rose." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:46:04 -0500 From: Jeanette Ford <> Subject: [Fwd: Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------58CB218426C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Judi, Read your reply about those that are not on the soc.sec death index--is there one for those who are deceased who received civil service retirement because of government or military service?? Thanks for any help you could give Jeanette "TIME IS INEVITABLE, IT WILL ALWAYS PASS" Simons---Leathers---Kinna---Phythian --------------58CB218426C8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mx06.erols.com ( [205.252.116.250]) by dmail1.erols.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA17589 for <>; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from bl-12.rootsweb.com (bl-12.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.28]) by mx06.erols.com (8.8.4/8.7.3/970114.001cmo) with ESMTP id QAA08002; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:42:33 -0500 Received: (from ) by bl-12.rootsweb.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15971; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:53:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:53:55 -0800 Message-Id: <> X-Sender: X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:54:01 -0500 To: (judith murphy) From: Vallerie Jane Valentine <> Subject: Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question Cc: Resent-Message-ID: <"pkYB1D.A.T4D.VLn6y"@bl-12> Resent-From: X-Mailing-List: <> archive/latest/2156 X-Loop: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: Would a deceased person be in the soc.sec.death index if they received benefits and the death payment was not paid? At 10:40 AM 1/25/97 -0500, you wrote: >RR stands for them being Railroad employees. > >Remember too -- not EVERYONE is going to be in this index -- USGovt Civil >Service workers are NOT; persons who are self-employed and did not collect >social security are NOT; persons who were under social security but didn't >get to collect it because of one reason or another are NOT. > >Judy M. >>I have found an individual in the Soc. Sec. Dearh Index with (RR) after >>his Soc. Sec. number. Usually at that point there is a code for the state. >>What does (RR) mean? If information is available from that source, where >>would I write? Does it refer to railroad? Thanks for any help. >> Catherine Smith >> >> >> > > --------------58CB218426C8-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:16:03 -0500 From: Jeanette Ford <> Subject: Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question wrote: > > for you info govt. empl. were put on SS in 1986 before that anyone working > for the govt. was on civil service retirement. as far as I know it is not > listed on the internet but being I am a csr that is civil service retirment I > can answer about SS. if anyone working for the govt. served in the armed > forces they would be on SS. anyone that worked at lest 10 years on SS would > be on the list. I hope this helps some. > della lane > Hi Della, I do believe that government employees were put into FERS, which stands for Federal Employees Retirment System, not SS. They are given options as where to place the money that goes into this fund. The monies come from the employees salary (there is a percentage limit,I'm not sure what it is) and the government will match that up to a certain percentage. Everyone automatically has 1% taken out of their salary, anything more they ( the employee) have to designate how much more they want to contribute. Hope this helps!! -- Jeanette "TIME IS INEVITABLE, IT WILL ALWAYS PASS" Simons---Leathers---Kinna---Phythian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:35:39 -0500 From: Jeanette Ford <> Subject: Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question judith murphy wrote: > > That is only partially true -- my father and mother BOTH worked for SS and > had their 40 quarters, but because they retired using the CSR they ARE NOT > on the death index list although they both have died. My brother, is, but > then he didn't retire through CSR either. > > The 1986 is correct, BUT you were given an option of keeping CSR or going > over to Social Security; if you chose (like I did as I work for the > government still) SS (I already had my 40 quarters under SS before starting > civil service, so it would bring me more money later on by switching) then > you STILL pay a very small amount each payday into the CSR account, and this > account will bring me another check, based upon how much I donated while a > govt employee, at time of retirement. Many (about 80% of ones who were > under CSR) chose to keep CSR and still are under this. > > Only new employees who have never worked under CSR are required to go to SS. > > So, you see what I said is STILL true and I got this info when I was > checking on my father's and mother's SS and why they couldn't get a check > when my mother turned 65!!! She didn't even get Medicare!!!. Info I got and > gave to ya'll was what BOTH CSR office and SS office told me. > > Judy M. > > >for you info govt. empl. were put on SS in 1986 before that anyone working > >for the govt. was on civil service retirement. as far as I know it is not > >listed on the internet but being I am a csr that is civil service retirment I > >can answer about SS. if anyone working for the govt. served in the armed > >forces they would be on SS. anyone that worked at lest 10 years on SS would > >be on the list. I hope this helps some. > >della lane > > > > > > > > Hi Judith, Another tidbit to add---when FERS came into being,if your were under civil service retirment they gave you a couple of options: 1. you could stay in csr 2. you could transfer all your csr to fers and be under fers completely. 3. you could keep your csr and go into fers, but only up to 5% and the government would NOT match your funds. The monies put into fers cannot be taken out until your are 59 and 1/2 yrs. old or if you do take it out before that age you will be penalized! -- Jeanette "TIME IS INEVITABLE, IT WILL ALWAYS PASS" Simons---Leathers---Kinna---Phythian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:33:15 -0500 From: Jeanette Ford <> Subject: Indians Hi to all, Awhile back I had asked about how you could trace your roots if there were Native American Indians in your family line. We all received some really good info, including one listing the different tribes and where you could get info on them. Well, needless to say I put it on the floppy that now does not work--so what else is new!!! Does anyone have any and or all of the info that we received on this list??? If you do would you share it with me??? Thanks for taking the time, I really do appreciate it!!! -- Jeanette "TIME IS INEVITABLE, IT WILL ALWAYS PASS" Simons---Leathers---Kinna---Phythian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:53:05 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: NR on 1900 census I believe NR stands for "not related". Big help, egh? Rochelle Rowlette ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:25:18 PST From: (Vicky Bair) Subject: Re: THANKS JEAN & TERRY!!! I second that. The list is great and the lessons were a plus! Thank you again. Vicky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:15:26 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: Soc.Sec.Death Index Question thanks for the answer about why you changed. I checked that out also and that is why I didn't change. My husbnads would have been reduced when I started drawing ss. We both will only draw the max combined. thanks again della lane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:07:35 -0600 From: E or K <> Subject: Another SS puzzle Hi all - This social security stuff is confusing. Something I have wondered about, but have never asked is this: My Grandmother is listed on the SSDI and the very last entry, as I understand it, is where the final payment went. However, it names a town that my grandmother never lived in or was connected to in any way. My parents live about ten miles from that town, but have no connection to it by address, phone or bank, other than the church they belong to uses it as a mailing address. My grandmother lived and died and was buried about 30+ miles from that town. She had no connection with my parents church. I have no idea why that town is listed! Any ideas from all you knowledgeable people out there? Thanks for any clues. Karlyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:28:07 -0600 From: Chip & Terri Tosh <> Subject: Lessons??? Were these lessons open to everyone... I'm *really* new here on this list, and would love to see the lessons. Were they FREE to the list, or was there a course I had to sign up for??? Thanks, Terri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 16:58:20 PST From: (David E Moran) Subject: web software I have just had the opportunity to get on the internet and look at the world wide web. What software do people recommend and why ? This is not a commercial internet provider that offers their own software package. I still have to use a communications program such as Smartcom to dial in. TIA folks David Moran ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:01:37 -0600 From: ELLIE HANDLEY <> Subject: Re: Is there a Massachusetts newsgroup wrote: > > This information comes from an Internet site you might want to check out > if you have access: > > GENEALOGY RESOURCES ON THE INTERNET > > GEOGRAPHIC/USA MAILING LISTS > > URL: http://members.aol.com/johnf14246/gen_mail_geo-usa.html > > Last update: September 17, 1996 by John Fuller, > > NORTHEAST-ROOTS. Discussions of genealogical and historical research in > Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and > Connecticut. Mailing address for postings is > . To subscribe, send the following > to : SUB NORTHEAST-ROOTS > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This is an E-mail list, rather than a newsgroup. I'm not aware of such a > newsgroup, but this site also has info on newsgroups, so you can check > that out, too. > > Pat Grout () > > On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:37:06 -0700 John & Alberta Frey > <> writes: > >I am doing genealogical research (for my roots) and would love to know > >if > >there is a Massachusetts newsgroup for this state that deals with > >genealogy? > >Thanks. Alberta :-) > >Is there one for the South/South-east. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:34:41 -0600 From: Judi Montgomery <> Subject: Halbert's Family Registry In 1995 I received an invitation to purchase a copy of the World Book of Badours from Halbert's in Toronto, Ontario. For my $28.95 + post & handling & tax, I received a history book on the settling of Canada, list of common names of the world, how to create my own coat of arms, how to being a family tree and names and addresses of Badour's around the world, many of them incomplete addresses and obviously taken from tax rolls or phone books. No family connections, no family histories, no personal accounts. In other words, no use to me. Now I receive an invitation to purchase a 'remarkable new book about the Peterson family, and you are in it!' Distributed by someone in Markham, Ontario it is supposed to contain indexing of the Peterson family from passenger lists, genealogical resisters and other official records, early Peterson settlers and drawing of the Peterson coat of Arms all for only $39.95 + post + handling + tax. Does anyone know if these people are really researchers, or am I about to get ripped off again??? Judi - ------------------------------ Judi Montgomery CompuBilling - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:14:00 -0500 (EST) From: (Ruth Barton) Subject: Proof I just came across a person on another list who says "I am trying to prove a line to the "Mayflower" and all I lack is proof of death of _______" and so on and so on. My question is why would he have to prove this persons death? Isn't his birth enough proof of his living? Consideration of this question would be greatly appreciated as I am very much troubled by this question of proof which seems to get some people on other lists very "hot under the collar." Thanks, Ruth Ruth Barton Westminster, Vt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:09:48 -0800 From: Mark Merritt <> Subject: Re: Lessons??? Hi Terri -- At 6:28 PM -0600 1/27/97, you wrote: > >Were these lessons open to everyone... >I'm *really* new here on this list, and would love to see the lessons. Were >they FREE to the list, or was there a course I had to sign up for??? Why, no they weren't free. I'll send along an address to send your check {GRIN}. Nah -- I can't do that; they really were free and Jean did a superb job with them. Following are a couple of ways you can get copies of earlier lessons: >ALL lessons are available at <www.rootsweb.com/~newbie> 24/7! > Write it down! Lessons are available from: Terry Beck > <> Good luck and good hunting, Mark Merritt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:07:22 -0800 From: Laurel Egenberger <> Subject: Re: Halbert's Family Registry At 6:34 PM -0800 1/27/97, Judi Montgomery wrote: >In 1995 I received an invitation to purchase a copy of the World Book of >Badours >from Halbert's in Toronto, Ontario. <snip--about worthless information >received> Does anyone know if these people are really >researchers, or am I about to get ripped off again??? In a word--Yes! (ah, you're about to get ripped off again) General rule of thumb is that all these offers are rip offs. This does bring up two things -- well, two sides of the same coin. We once got a letter from someone in Germany with our name who was doing research. He was very straight forward and the letter told us 1) who he was 2) that he had been researching the name in Germany for some years 3) he was now researching the "auslanders" and was asking for our cooperation 4) what he wanted from us and what he offered in return when he put the history together, he offered it at a reasonable price and we had already established a correspondence--plus had shared info. This was before I was "into" genealogy, but I learned a lot from that approach. The other side of the coin is that you will be contacting people in the course of your research. It's hard enough to get cooperation, but when I contact someone, I always tell the person * who I am * how I descend from the common ancestor (if one is established) and how we are related (especially if we don't have the same surname now) *what I offer in return for their information--which is usually a sharing of what I have. If you think the offer might be legitimate but aren't sure, you can write back and ask a few questions. If they're a rip off, you won't get your questions answered; if they're legit, you probably will. --Laurel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:11:27 -0800 From: Mark Merritt <> Subject: Re: Halbert's Family Registry Hi Judi Montgomery -- At 8:34 PM -0600 1/27/97, you wrote in part: >Am I about to get ripped off again??? Do you recall the scene in the Peanuts cartoons where Lucy holds the football for Charley Brown to kick it and pulls it away at the last moment so Charley falls on his keester -- again -- and again -- and again? Charlie always trusts and Lucy always pulls it back. Welcome to Halberts. Save your money. Better yet, spend the forty bucks on a nice dinner and ask the waiter if he knows anything about your family. You'll likely get a more useful answer. Good luck and good hunting, Mark Merritt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:32:19 -0800 From: Paul Dupuy <> Subject: Re: zip file wrote: > > In a message dated 97-01-26 21:39:15 EST, you write: > > << Hello, > > Does anyone know how to run a zip file? > Penny > >> > > You have to unzip it Penny. See if you can find a copy of PKZIP > or WINZIP to download and you can use either one of them to > unzip your file. After that is done, you will be able to read it. > > Phil And don't forget the Mac-Huggers of the world. There is an application called UnZip to read a zipped file on a Mac. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:28:39 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: zip file In a message dated 97-01-26 23:58:12 EST, you write: << With all these messages concerning zip files, I have a question. About 2-3 months ago, I received a message at work that some zip files found online were "contaminated" and that I should never, under any circumstances, down load a zip file from the internet into my computer. >> The Zip file is not contaminated, it is an executable contained within the "archive" Zip files are a means of compressing executable and other files into a file which has fewer bytes than the sum of the contained files. This reduces storage space on the host and may download faster than the individual files (depends on the type for speed). These files take a program to unpack (Unzip) them to a usable form. There are several virus programs which will check a zip file before opening to test for the presence of viri (plural <G>). You should always use one of these on downloads to protect your system. McCaffee comes to mind as one, but there are several others available. There is no reason to avoid these files as long as precautions are taken. There is the very rare occasion when there may be an executable in the zip which is part of the zip format, but most virus checkers will find these as well. (I have never seen one of these, but they are rumored).