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Archiver > GENBOX > 2005-03 > 1111284987


From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Handling a ReMariage...
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 18:16:27 -0800
In-Reply-To: <000201c52cef$9b03ca90$6401a8c0@micronxp>


Tom - I beg to differ about it taking a pile of money to get an annulment
because I did exactly that following a civil divorce. All it required was
paperwork and an extraordinarily long wait for the annulment to come
through. In the interim my (now) husband and I had already married and had
celebrated our 3rd wedding anniversary. By the time the annulment came
through, even my cradle Catholic husband didn't consider a Catholic ceremony
important any longer.

You can have a civil marriage without the approval of a church, but you
can't have a church marriage without the stamp of approval of the civil
authorities.

Which date does the couple in question celebrate as their anniversary?

CheriC


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Morris [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 5:53 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Handling a ReMariage...


Well as long as you're splitting hairs, you might want to make it clear that
you're talking about the civil law of a single state in the United States
when you talk about "legality." Canon law has its own independent notions
of legality, as do all the other countries of the world and the other 49
states in the US. Of course, in places and times with a "state church"
there may not have independent ideas of civil and religious marriages.

It's true that a religious ceremony is "solely for the benefit of religious
reasons" in the same way that a civil ceremony is soley for the benefit of
civil reasons. Whether either or both are important to record is a personal
value judgement. I bet there are people who think avoiding eternal hell
fire and damnation is at least as important as being able to inherit their
spouse's estate.

If you don't think the practicioners of canon law take it seriously, try
getting a civil divorce and then getting married again in a Catholic church.
It's not going to happen until you send a pile of money to the Vatican to
buy an annulment.

Genbox provides sufficient flexibility to record whatever marriage events
are of interest to the researcher. Personally I'd err on the side of over
recording, rather than under recording. The events can always be filtered
out of reports later if it's decided they don't add sufficient value.

Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 7:25 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Handling a ReMariage...
>
>
> Not to split hairs, but the "legality" of marriage is
> determined by civil authorities, not church. Civil
> authorities issue the license and once a ceremony is
> performed with that license you are legally married. If you
> marriage in a church without a license, you may be married in
> the eyes of the church but you aren't legally married and the
> relationship doesn't carry with it any of the protections
> under the law afforded a "licensed" marriage. Any church
> ceremony after the fact is done solely for the benefit of
> religious reasons. No second license is obtained. Thus I'm
> still of the opinion that the first marriage is the "legal"
> one and the second one merely a religious ceremony after the
> fact to satisfy some religious belief or tenet.
>
> When my husband and I were "remarried" in the Catholic
> Church, we neither obtained a license nor did we say the vows
> normally associated with a traditional ceremony. It was all
> over in about 5 minutes. We don't even celebrate the event,
> only our marriage via license and, of course, we knew we were
> legally married anyway.
>
> CheriC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kathy Lenerz [mailto:]
> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 3:52 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [GENBOX] Handling a ReMariage...
>
>
> Rich Marek wrote:
> > I'm fishing for tips. I have a couple who was married in a Civil
> > ceremony by a judge and now they have been remarried in the
> Catholic
> > church. Has anyone entered this in Genbox whom can recommend a fine
> > way to do this so that I will not have any quirks in my database...
> > double marriages/couples or anything else? I appreciate any ideas.
>
> My grandparents were married twice: legally, they were
> married with the first ceremony; according to their church,
> they weren't married until the second ceremony (apparently
> they were living in sin for a year). The second ceremony
> wasn't a "blessing"; it was a sacrament: marriage. I've
> entered both marriage ceremonies, as I think they tell an
> important tale. I'm not sure what you mean by "double
> marriages/couples," but entering two marriages for my
> grandparents hasn't caused me any trouble.
>
> Kathy



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