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From:
Subject: GENBRIT-D Digest V97 #162
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
GENBRIT-D DigestVolume 97 : Issue 162
Today's Topics:
#1 Alfred Grundy, Astley, Lancs [ (Beryl Bas]
#2 STEEN Family Origins in Cheshire ["Terence J.Steen" <]
#3 Thomas Birch [ (Monica Ta]
#4 Re: Expensive Cookie Recipe [ (JamieWK)]
#5 Re: Way Of Finding When A Person L [ (Bill Bedf]
#6 Re: Gloucester Place Name ? [snapper@~bigfoot.com (Keith Walter]
#7 [INFO] How to use the mailing list []
#8 Re: Bowring births in Newfoundland [ (Bill Bedf]
#9 Re: Mind Your P's & Q's? [ (Don Kirkman)]
#10 Re: Gloucester Place Name ? [Elizabeth Jack <]
#11 Re: Occupation [Leo Boberschmidt <>]
#12 Butson Family Newsletter (http://m [ (WWJohnston)]
#13 Re: A way to get Irish & UK stamps []
#14 WRIGHT SURNAME of Leeds, England [ (BuchfinckN)]
#15 Numbers on GRO Certificates [ (Helen ]
#16 Clergy Lists, was Eclesiastical he [Norma Rudinsky <.]
#17 Stracey as christian name [ (Ian Clapham]
#18 Re: Stonehouse, whereabouts of [ (Richard Bolt)]
#19 Re: Reading worn grave stones? [Rod Neep <>]
#20 Re: Occupation [Rod Neep <>]
#21 Free ONLINE CLASS-learning methods [#boyes#@gardener.com]
#22 Oxbridge look ups? [Norma Rudinsky <.]
#23 1871 Census []
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------------------------------
X-Message: #1
Date: 11 Oct 1997 14:09:13 -0700
From: (Beryl Bass)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Alfred Grundy, Astley, Lancs
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Looking for parentage etc of other info on Alfred Grundy born October 10,
1884, Astley, near Bolton, Lancashire
Beryl Bass
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #2
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 16:59:10 +1000
From: "Terence J.Steen" <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: STEEN Family Origins in Cheshire
Can anyone help with finding my Great Grandfathers Richard STEEN ancesters,I
do not have his birthdate but know he lived at Smithy Lane,Lostock Gralam
in Cheshire England around 1913 his eldest son Charles STEEN lived at 1 Era
Street,Sale,Cheshire until his death in 1956?
Terry Steen,Melbourne,Australia.
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #3
Date: 11 Oct 1997 14:40:42 -0700
From: (Monica Taylor)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Thomas Birch
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am trying to find two different Thomas Birchs one uncle to the other.
1) Thomas Birch born 1848 in Park House, Barden, was an unemployed carpenter
living at home in the 1881 census. He was not in the 1891 census but was
sited in his father's will in 1895 which was probated in 1904. We are sure
he was alive then, but we can not find a death for him anywhere. We suspect
he may have been disabled in some way, and hence the fact his father left
him property and about 1100 pounds, and nothing to any of his remaining 5
siblings. Can anyone come up with any ideas?
2) The second Thomas was the other's nephew. He was born in 1889 of Joseph
and Martha Whitaker Birch, She died soon after and Thomas was living with
his maternal grandparents in 1891. We can not find an appropriate death for
him. He could have died in WW1 I guess, or emigrated. I suspect he died as
we had never heard of him in the family until I unearthed this marraige and
his birth. Any suggestions???
Thanks a million.
Monica, Ottawa, Canada
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #4
Date: 11 Oct 1997 14:54:15 -0700
From: (JamieWK)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Expensive Cookie Recipe
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The first time I heard this story it was 40 years ago, and it was See's
Candy. The last time I heard this was two years ago, and it was Neimans -
and I heard the cookies weren't all that good.
----------
> From:
> To: ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
> Cc: ; ; ;
; ; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ;
; ; ;
;
> Subject: Re: Expensive Cookie Recipe
> Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 9:37 AM
>
> THIS STORY GETS BIGGER EVERY TIME THAT I HEAR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
THE
> FIRST TIME I HEARD IT, THE RESTAURANT WAS THE TRAIN STATION IN ST.
LOUIS.
> NOW , I SEE THAT IT HAS GONE TO TEXAS. MAY I POINT OUT THAT
NEIMAN-MARCUS
> DOES NOT HAVE A RESTAURANT..................
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #5
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 23:13:09 +0100
From: (Bill Bedford)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Way Of Finding When A Person Left England?
DGladieux <> wrote:
> Is there a way to determine when a person left England? My ggranddad, Felix
> Foreman, born about Nov. 1867 in Stoke Dameral, Devon. His dad was Felix
> Foreman (b. July 4, 1844 in Greenwich Dist., Kent - d. 1893 aboard the HMS
> Victoria) His mom was Emma Elizabeth KIRK (b. 1845/46 in Devonport - d. March
> 18, 1874, Portsea, Hants).
>
> Felix seems to have disappeared and popped up in California mid-late 1880's.
He is likely to have been fostered after his mother died. The chances
are that he would have been brought up by uncle/aunts, and may still
have been with them for the 1881 census
>
> Any suggestions welcomed. My England relative doesn't know - no one alive to
> ask.
> My California relative said Felix jumped ship . . . . . .
>
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #6
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:19:04 GMT
From: snapper@~bigfoot.com (Keith Walter)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Gloucester Place Name ?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:26:33 +0100, "Andrew Chapman"
<> wrote:
> Please could someone help me with a placename in Gloucester(shire). It
>appears on the 1851 Census as my ancestors place of Birth. Some of the
>letters are corrupt but it appears to be ?a??l?dean.
>Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
There's an East Dean (Drybrook)
Keith Walter
remove '~' from my address to reply
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #7
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:00:28 BST
From:
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: [INFO] How to use the mailing lists
Posting-Frequency: 14 days
Last-Modified: 1997/09/26
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______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #8
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:30:32 +0100
From: (Bill Bedford)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Bowring births in Newfoundland - help wanted
Elizabeth Power <> wrote:
> Charles and Harriet Bowring married in Devon in 1833. From 1843
> onwards they are in Liverpool. On the 1881 census their eldest
> child has her birthplace as St Johns Newfoundland so I suspect
> that all the childern I've so far failed to trace were born there.
>
> Is there anyone out there who can point me in the right direction
> for getting information on Newfoundland please?
>
C.T Bowring of St Johns and Liverpool were shipping agents who bought
and sold Newfoundland salt cod. They chartered ships in the UK to take
the fish from Newfoundland to the Mediteranean, the Carribean and South
America. Since the part of the business was on each side of the Atlantic
and there were very many, mostly small, ships engaged in this trade it
is not inconceivable that the Bowring family crossed the Atlantic on
more than one occasion.
This assume that C.T. and Charles Bowring were related.
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #9
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 23:38:55 GMT
From: (Don Kirkman)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Mind Your P's & Q's?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It has come to my attention that Donald MacDonald-Ross wrote in article
<61ha2s$l3p$1@brain.npiec.on.ca>:
>Mike Keefe () wrote:
>: On Tue, 07 Oct 1997 20:29:21 GMT, wrote:
>: >A few weeks back there was some online question about the definition
>: >and/or origin of the phrase "mind your p's and q's" .
>: >An 87 year old typesetter explained to me that the lower case p and q
>: >are very easily mixed - hence the warning.
>: And so were the d's and b's!. The typesetter had to place the type
>: "backwards", in the mirror image of how the print would appear on the
>: paper and it was for that reason that p's and q's as well as d's and
>: b's were often mistakenly placed. But only by the apprentices mind
>: you!
>I recall that expression referred to pints and quarts, at the alehouse!
>Unscrupulous publicans would sometimes confuse the patrons when the bill
>was tendered. My understanding is that printers devils were not unknown to
>frequent pubs, and suspect the quoted poem mentions "Ps and Qs", in a
>joking referance to this.
Robert L. Chapman's -American Slang-, ISBN 0-06-096160-0, lists only the
printing trade as the source, tracing the phrase to the mid-1800s.
--
Don
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #10
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:45:49 +0100
From: Elizabeth Jack <>
To:
Message-ID: <OnLkZBAt+>
Subject: Re: Gloucester Place Name ?
Hi
> Please could someone help me with a placename in Gloucester(shire). It
>appears on the 1851 Census as my ancestors place of Birth. Some of the
>letters are corrupt but it appears to be ?a??l?dean.
>Any clues would be greatly appreciated.
Could be Mitcheldean or Littledean or possibly Ruardean. Do you have
any more clues?
Liz
Elizabeth Jack :
Hidden Heritage : http://www.hidden-heritage.com
Researching : BLINKHORNE / BLENKARN / SOSBE / GWINNUTT / RANN
: BASTARD / SEAPEY / JACK / HOLLOWAY / DIVERS
: PHILPOTT and PURDON in IRELAND
Gloucestershire FHS : http://www.compulink.co.uk/~rd/GENUKI/gfhs.htm
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #11
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 20:12:04 -0400
From: Leo Boberschmidt <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Occupation
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Rose Conway wrote:
>
> In the 1891 census my grandfather was described as a 'hooker' (not
> the modern connotation I'm sure!) As far as I know the whole family,
> resident in Chorton Upon Medlock, Manchester, worked in cotton mills.
> 3 of his sisters were occupied as 'braid tenters' . Presumably
> something to do with the weaving of fancy braids.
>
> Rose Conway
> Upham Hampshire UK
==============
From: "A List of Occupations"
http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/terms.html
Hooker - 19th century worker in textile industry who operated a machine
which laid fabric flat in uniform folds of any required length.
Braid Tenter isn't in the list but...
Tenter - one who stretched the cloth on a machine while it was drying or
looked after and maintained the machine used in the process.
This is a great list and well worth a look by anyone looking for old or
archaic occupation names.
Leo Boberschmidt, Kensington, MD
Researching: Trigg, McCabe
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #12
Date: 12 Oct 1997 00:23:28 GMT
From: (WWJohnston)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Butson Family Newsletter (http://members.aol.com/butsons)
I have begun the process of migrating all 10 issues of the Butson Family
Newsletter to the web at http://members.aol.com/butsons
I published these issues from 1979-1987, when financial burdens forced me to
drop it.
The newsletter covers Butsons on all continents (including Antarctica).
So far, I have only managed to put 10 issues on the web. More will come as time
allows.
Wesley Johnston
<a
href="http://members.aol.com/butsons">http://members.aol.com/butsons</a>;
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #13
Date: 11 Oct 1997 17:52:04 -0700
From:
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: A way to get Irish & UK stamps in the USA
In a message dated 97-10-10 14:53:54 EDT, you write:
<< You'd have to do the math, but I _think_ it's cheaper than buying the
International Reply Coupons, and is easier for the person you are
corresponding with to use a properly stamped SASE.
Hope this post is of interest. >>
Of interest? I CAN'T BELIEVE I DIDN'T THINK OF THIS BEFORE!! THANK YOU SO
VERY, VERY MUCH!!
Lori Ray
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #14
Date: 12 Oct 1997 01:03:12 GMT
From: (BuchfinckN)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: WRIGHT SURNAME of Leeds, England
My 10th great grandfather, Thomas Wright may have come from Leeds, England. He
died in Bedford, Virginia, USA in 1763. He married Mary ? I believe Thomas
Wright's father may have been a John Wright. I have old letters stating of
trips to Leeds, England and bringing back to Virginia Leeds Pottery. Can
anyone help me out as to where I can start searching for any Wrights around
Leeds, England?
Niki from San Francisco
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #15
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:18:37 -0400
From: (Helen Parsonage)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Numbers on GRO Certificates
I hope this isn't a silly question, but I've recently read that some folks
note these numbers carefully in their sources - all part of 'good research
method'. You know the ones - a few upper case letter followed by several
numbers, eg BXBY 071556. I hadn't been paying them too much attention.
Before I spend hours entering all these numbers into my computer, could
someone tell me what they are for? (Is Barbara Dixon listening?)
They appear to be pre-printed on the form - and unless the GRO keeps a
note of them I see no use in recording them for posterity. Or could one
obtain a copy by giving this number alone?
I await words of wisdom from those more erudite than I.
Helen
--
The Look-Up Exchange: County-by-County Genealogical Resources for the Whole of England.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/8555/lookup.html
Mirrored at:
http://freespace.virgin.net/m.harbach/lookup.html
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #16
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:48:15 -0700
From: Norma Rudinsky <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Clergy Lists, was Eclesiastical help
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks very much, Barney, for that "translation," which others can use
too.
The "Clergy Lists" are books published at various intervals giving a
shorter version of clerical careers -- i.e. less about birth and schooling
but full on church appointments. If you read several of them (and they
are alphabetical and/or have a good index), it is easy to follow someone's
career. When he retires, he may still be continued with an address of
retirement.
I haven't actually seen them, because a kind soul in Salt Lake City looked
up my people and photocopied the entries. but the title Clergy Lists is
given in the page heading, so it must be at least the short title of the
book. The call number at the SLC Genealogy Library is
942
LE4kly
and the Library has the years 1844, 1862, 1868, 1871 and probably more.
I believe the book is NOT on microfilm there, but it must be in many
British libraries.
Norma Leigh Rudinsky
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #17
Date: 11 Oct 1997 18:52:01 -0700
From: (Ian Clapham)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Stracey as christian name
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My g-g-grandfather was named Beaumaurice Stracey Clarke, son of Edward
Daniel Clarke and Angelica Rush, born in Cambridge 1813. Edward Daniel
was very keen on the use of family names as christian names as his sons
were all given these, except the first who was given the first names of
his two grandfathers.
The sons were
Edward William b1807
Paget Wotton b1812
Beaumaurice Stracey b1813
Walpole Hammond
Octavius Halford
We have been able to work out where most of the names came from except
Stracey. Angelica Rush' parents were Sir William Beaumaris Rush and
Laura Carter, Laura Carter's father being Cremer Carter. There is an
Abingdon connection with the Carter side of the family as well, as Laura
Carter had a first cousin called William Abingdon.
Has anyone else come across the name Stracey either as a first name or a
surname.
Ian Clapham
http://www.voyager.co.nz/~ianclap/
http://www.voyager.co.nz/~ianclap/gennz.htm
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #18
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:35:22 -0400
From: (Richard Bolt)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Stonehouse, whereabouts of
Everyone helped me on the E.Stonehouse of Devon. Now part of Plymouth. No
one else told me, but a map in Exeter archives has a W. Stonehouse on it
also. I have more they sent me, but was a Royal Navy town!!! Dick
In article <>, Stuart Cresswell
<> wrote:
> The message <61c8tc$>
> from (Judith Clemons) contains these words:
>
>
> > Is there a Stonehouse other than the village/town in Gloucestershire?
>
>
> Yes. Near Strathavon in Lanarkshire, Scotland.
>
> It nearly became a "new town" but the government of the day saw the
> light and cancelled the development. Possibly best known by those not
> local for its hospital.
>
> Stuart
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #19
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:55:03 +0100
From: Rod Neep <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Reading worn grave stones?
In article <>, Herb Asher <-
0.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Hi all,
>
> I need to read some very worn 17th c. grave stones. Does
>anyone know any ways i can get the writing to show up. Someone
>mentioned that infa-red film will show up the writing even though it
>is not clear on the surface.. is this true, and if so is it the film
>or the camara lens, or even the light that must be infa-red?
>
> I really need to discover what it says on these grave stones
>as they are the oldest surviving stones i can find baring my family
>name.
There are some hints on the Monumental Incriptions web pages at
http://www.neep.demon.co.uk/mis/
The very worst stones are best viewed at night with a torch placed on
one edge of the stone, so that it casts shadows into what remains of the
inscription. It is surprising what can be seen using this method.
I suggest that you warn the vicar what you are really doing though ;-)
Cheers
Rod
--
Rod Neep : Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England:
------------------------------------------------
RESEARCHING: | NEEP (all periods & places) MILLS (Dby) |
------------------------------------------------
| SARDISON >1720 | DENMAN >1800 | WRIGHT >1780 |
| JOHNSON >1700 | SAVAGE >1900 | DYKES >1900 |
| HOWES >1900 | (all Notts) |
------------------------------------------------
| HAWS/HOWES >1850 (Nfk) | TAYLOR >1880 (Ess) |
------------------------------------------------
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #20
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:49:03 +0100
From: Rod Neep <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Occupation
In article <>, Leo Boberschmidt <>
writes
>From: "A List of Occupations"
>http://cpcug.org/user/jlacombe/terms.html
>
>Hooker - 19th century worker in textile industry who operated a machine
>which laid fabric flat in uniform folds of any required length.
interesting... in the censuses... a prostitute would often give her
occupation as "dressmaker" ;-)
Rod
--
Rod Neep : Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England:
------------------------------------------------
RESEARCHING: | NEEP (all periods & places) MILLS (Dby) |
------------------------------------------------
| SARDISON >1720 | DENMAN >1800 | WRIGHT >1780 |
| JOHNSON >1700 | SAVAGE >1900 | DYKES >1900 |
| HOWES >1900 | (all Notts) |
------------------------------------------------
| HAWS/HOWES >1850 (Nfk) | TAYLOR >1880 (Ess) |
------------------------------------------------
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #21
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 02:25:06 GMT
From: #boyes#@gardener.com
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Free ONLINE CLASS-learning methods
Another free class in Beginning Genealogy at
http://www.vu.org
find the "channel 33 page and see what you think! Covers online
methods and also working on offline resources.
Begins Oct. 13 load 3 hours/week
If you're interested in joining an Irish group, read the directions
on http://www.geocities.com/~hoseahouse/fianna/nugroup.html
before you sign up for a study group.
Hope to see you there! :)
Remove # to send email.
http://www.hoseahouse.org
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #22
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:18:16 -0700
From: Norma Rudinsky <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Oxbridge look ups?
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'd be very grateful if someone with easy access to the books giving info
on Oxford and Cambridge students could look up the following:
LEIGH, John Rowland M.A. Oriel Coll. Ox. (dates before or around
1885/6 when he was ordained and licensed as a Church of
England priest) [source Clergy List 1899]
LEIGH, John Franklen William. M.A. Clare Coll. Cam. (dates before
or around 1907/8 when he was ordained and licensed as a
Church of England priest) [source Clergy List 1901?]
Actually both were in the Diocese of Llandaff, so perhaps I should have
written Church of Wales? (I don't know when that change was made.)
But both had all their later parishes in England or the Royal Navy.
Also, since no B.A. is given I am assuming they went to a seminary, e.g.
St. David's in Lampeter (from memory, maybe faulty), rather than a
university.
Actually, could you also look for the following (just in case):
MORGAN, William Leigh, M.A. [no place given] dates would be
earlier, as he was born 1808.
Thanks very much. I'll be happy to look up anything I can in return.
Norma Leigh Rudinsky
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #23
Date: 11 Oct 1997 19:46:19 -0700
From:
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: 1871 Census
Can anyone tell me if there is an index available for the 1871 census in
Devon and Cornwall? If so, how can I obtain a "look-up"?
Thanks for any help you can give me.
CJ
This thread: