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Subject: GENBRIT-D Digest V97 #171
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
GENBRIT-D DigestVolume 97 : Issue 171
Today's Topics:
#1 Re: What an Address! ["Ian" <]
#2 Job - Clerk of works [ (Bar]
#3 Question [Mike Doyle<>]
#4 GRO INDEX LOOKUP - CLASPER QDec 18 [ (Willmott, ]
#5 Re: Job - Clerk of works []
#6 Liverpool Question [ (William B. Sm]
#7 Re: bmd certificates uk & Ireland ["davecoss"@ihug.co.nz (Dave Cossar]
#8 Dallas [ (S & J Gavel)]
#9 Re: PRESTON [Terry Preston <.]
#10 Re: 2% 1851 CENSUS - site to see!! [ (Billshau29)]
#11 Llanfair-ap-y-Bryn [ (Njfmom)]
#12 Lead Coffins [ (Judy Ramsey)]
#13 KYDD; SCT; -1820 ["Alex Kydd." <.]
#14 Hanged, drawn and quartered [ (Judy Ramsey)]
#15 Re: Ship 1817 [Oric Perry <]
#16 Re: Ship 1817 [Oric Perry <]
#17 Where is Springbourne, Hampshire? [ (Tony Bull]
#18 HERPS [ (Herps,]
#19 Re: Guy Fawkes/ Gunpowder Plot [Lesley Robertson <l.a.robertson@st]
#20 Re: Gloucestershire FHS [ (Frank Mitchell)]
#21 Re: What an Address! [Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <]
#22 Re: Aberdare, Scotland, 1820's [Charles Ellson <]
#23 Re: Guy Fawkes / Gunpowder Plot [Charles Ellson <]
#24 Re: Dallas [Charles Ellson <]
#25 Re: OCCUPATION 'Z' [Charles Ellson <]
#26 Re: Question on Census Records [Charles Ellson <]
#27 BDM Numbers [ (Graham]
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X-Message: #1
Date: 13 Oct 1997 22:19:23 GMT
From: "Ian" <>
To:
Message-ID: <01bcd825$c3ce5480$>
Subject: Re: What an Address!
Oh dear Peter. A philosopher as well 8-)
Surely you know what a "Turkey" is to our American cousins?
To call something a Turkey means it's naff, rubbish, useless, a waste of
space. To call someone a Turkey, would be like calling them a Wally or a
Dipstick.
Woody, if you read this, I'm still working on who the me was.
Ian Hunter
http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/tiptree
Peter J King <> wrote in article
<>...
> On 12 Oct 1997 wrote:
>
> > Can anyone tell me if this street still exsist today?
> >
> > Turkey Street, St Clements, Worcester, England.
> >
> > and is, St Clements a district or possibly the parish church.
> >
> > Would you beleive it ... I may have some relatives that may have lived
on Turkey Street.
> > I hope it was so named before they moved there. :)
>
> I'm obviously missing something here - what exactly is so funny
> about the address? Is it the country or the bird (or something else)?
>
> PJK
>
> | http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0337 |
> | Philosophy resources, plus a good |
> | deal more - both serious and recreational |
>
>
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X-Message: #2
Date: 13 Oct 1997 15:30:37 -0700
From: (Barry Chitty)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Job - Clerk of works
What would this occupation entail, on a large building site, for
example?
TIA
--
Barry Chitty
______________________________
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X-Message: #3
Date: 13 Oct 1997 20:27:07 GMT
From: Mike Doyle<>
To:
Message-ID: <61u06r$>
Subject: Question
What is this NewsGroup for?
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/a1telecom
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X-Message: #4
Date: 13 Oct 1997 15:56:32 -0700
From: (Willmott, Jerry)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: GRO INDEX LOOKUP - CLASPER QDec 1850
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I have been having problems tracing my ggfather's birth registration,
and reading the St. Catherine's Index fiche. The record is handwritten.
I believe it reads:
Q Dec 1850 CLASPER, ThomasDurhamxv 492
I believe Durham should be in the xxv registration district, but the
first x might be missing.
It seems to be the only Clasper entry, and I am trying to reconcile this
with the information from the 1881 census. Some threads don't quite tie
up.
If anyone can assist I would be most grateful.
TIA,
Jerry Willmott
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X-Message: #5
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:22:21 +0000
From:
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Job - Clerk of works
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Barry Chitty wrote:
>
> What would this occupation entail, on a large building site, for
> example?
> TIA
> --
> Barry Chitty
Clerk of the Works typically is representative of the architect of the
project. The Clerk of the Works resides on the project site and his
duties entail making sure the project is constructed per the Architect's
plans and specifications. The Clerk of the Works will keep, typically,
daily records recording what occurs @ the project site - what is phase
is being construcred, what materials are received and installed, what
directions were provided to the construction contrractor, what problems
aropse and what solutions were offered.
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X-Message: #6
Date: 14 Oct 1997 00:21:44 GMT
From: (William B. Smallshaw)
To:
Message-ID: <61uduo$2eeo$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>
Subject: Liverpool Question
A number of my ancestors are buried in Low Hill Cemetery in Liverpool.
Where is/was this cemetery located and does it still exist?
Thanks,
Bill Smallshaw
Huntington Beach, California
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X-Message: #7
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:43:36 GMT
From: "davecoss"@ihug.co.nz (Dave Cossar)
To:
Message-ID: <61uioj$beg$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: bmd certificates uk & Ireland
(John MELLORS) wrote:
>I have access to indexes for bmd as follows:
>Ireland Births & Deaths 1864-1921 Marriages 1845-1921
>N.Ireland indexes 1922-1959
Are the above publicly available in New Zealand or on line?
Presumably Ireland to 1921 includes Northern Ireland?
============================================================================
Please remove the quotation marks (") from address when EMailing response.
Thus correct address is
Thanks.
Dave Cossar
'Absolutely Positively' Wellington, New Zealand.
============================================================================
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X-Message: #8
Date: 13 Oct 1997 19:29:34 -0700
From: (S & J Gavel)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Dallas
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Would someone please tell me if there is a place in Scotland called
"DALLAS" and if so, where it is located?
Jessie Ann
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X-Message: #9
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:21:12 -0500
From: Terry Preston <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: PRESTON
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Keith Thompson wrote:
>
> According to Street Maps of the USA, there are 23 Prestons listed. Do
> you have any indication as to part of the country, year, etc. The
> western Prestons would probably factor out. I do know personally of a
> Preston MN, but have no info as to when it was founded.
>
> Keith Thompson
>
> Karla K Shahan wrote:
> >
> > Where is the town/city of PRESTON? What state, country?
> >
> > Or, What is the is the signifigance of the NAME PRESTON?
> >
> > We see is repeatedly in our SHAHAN family heritage, usually with WILLIAM
> > PRESTON.
> >
> > Any clues? Does is sound rather PROTESTANT? OR ENGLISH???
> > Was there someone special in history names William Preston?
> >
> > Many thanks for your help.
> >
> >
Terry Lee Preston wrote:
Here is a brief synopsis of the significance of the name Preston. If
others have more detailed information, I would appreciate an email at
.
The name Preston was around as long ago as the turn of this millinium in
the central western region of England (I believe this area is called
Lancashire). Principal cities in the area include Liverpool,
Manchester, and Preston. After the Norman invasion a number of Prestons
migrated to County Meath, Ireland, which is located just north of County
Dublin, almost directly accross the Irish Sea. The Lord of Tara
(Ireland)is a Preston, as were many English judges and political
figures.
The original meaning of the name is "From the Priest's Place", which
would seem to suggest a relationship with the church, or a location
within close proximity to a church. Since the name predates the
Anglican church by several hundred years, the "Priest's place" would be
associated with the Roman Catholic Church, I believe. If anyone has
greater light on this, please let me know.
William seems to be the most prominent male Preston name (and Elizabeth
is the most common female Preston name). I had both a great-uncle and a
great-grandfather who were named William Preston. Both lived in the
Tennessee valley (South Tennessee & North Alabama) area.
The name seems to be especially prominent in the Louisville, Kentucky
and Dallas, Texas areas. I have no idea why.
______________________________
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X-Message: #10
Date: 14 Oct 1997 02:44:57 GMT
From: (Billshau29)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: 2% 1851 CENSUS - site to see!!
In article <k5+>, Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake
<> writes:
>>There is a web site where one can download the files of the 2% Sample of
>>the 1851 UK Census.
>>
>>This is the site's home page: http://everton.com/d1.htm
>>
>I hate to rain on your parade, but I suspect that anyone downloading
>from this site may be contravening UK copyright law, and I would not
>suggest to anyone that they knowingly commit a criminal act.
>
>
Barney:
You've brought up this interpretation if UK copyright law on several
occasions. The problem is that what you have said is in almost direct
contradiction to US copyright law. The main premise of our law is that you
do not utilize published data without a) obtaining the originators
permission, or b) giving specific attribution. A second facet of our law
is that raw data is not copyrightable.
In the case at hand, the data resides on a computer located within
the US. While there may be some question as to how the data got there in
the first place, I don't believe that there is any question under our laws
as to how it can be accessed and used.
I'm by no means and Attorney (Solicitor), but I have, for the past 7
years, run a For-Profit business pretty much along the lines of this
thread. I think we may be in a somewhat grey area here, and one that could
result in the breaking of the laws of one country or the other. Neither of
us wants the latter to occur.
Any Attorneys (Solicitors) around to take a crack at this?
Bill Shaughnessy
1:129/291 on FidoNet
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X-Message: #11
Date: 14 Oct 1997 04:33:32 GMT
From: (Njfmom)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Llanfair-ap-y-Bryn
I am trying to locate information on the families of James Lewis and Thomas
Morgans who lived in
Pen-y-Wern and Bwlch Cynnant in the 1830's and 40's. Their children, William
Lewis and Rachel Morgans were married in the parish church 6/28/1845 at
Llanfair-ar y-Bryn.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
NJ Lewis Fenselau
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X-Message: #12
Date: 13 Oct 1997 22:20:43 -0700
From: (Judy Ramsey)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Lead Coffins
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Extract from Life and Death in Spitalfields - 1700 to 1850
Lead has been used in the construction of coffins in this country since
the Roman periods. Gerenerally speaking, lead was only used on high
status coffins before it became compulsory for intramural burials in
1813. Lead was always known to have preservative qualities and at a time
when in popular belief resurrection demanded 'complete mortal remains'
was an attractive option for those who could afford to use it.
Furthermore as a container for the dead it was particularly useful in an
intramural situation because it prevented leakage of the smells and
fluids associated with putrifaction. It was for this reason that an
order of 1813 decreed that all fututre burials should be enclosed within
lead".
The book further states that not all were willing to comply with this,a
and 15% of the survey interred after this date were not enclosed in
lead. The cost of a simple wooden coffin would have been about six
pounds, while the lead one would have been more expensive.
The book is a fascinating account of the excavation of the vaults of
Christchurch Spitalfields and has a good index. I would be willing to
look up any name required.
Judy
New Zealand
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X-Message: #13
Date: 14 Oct 1997 05:27:19 GMT
From: "Alex Kydd." <>
To:
Message-ID: <61uvrn$>
Subject: KYDD; SCT; -1820
KYDD; SCT; -1820
Hi,
I am interested in finding as much information out on the "Kydd" Family
tree as possible!!
especially any connection with:
John Kydd c1794 d1866 married(1820) Dick Helen c1798 d1860
Both of Carmyille, Angus Scotland.
Sincerely Alex Kydd
"Alex Kydd." <>
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X-Message: #14
Date: 13 Oct 1997 22:29:36 -0700
From: (Judy Ramsey)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Hanged, drawn and quartered
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It is true that anyone sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered was
still alive when drawn and quartered?
Truly a deterent to people if this IS true
Judy
New Zealand
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X-Message: #15
Date: 14 Oct 1997 05:34:09 GMT
From: Oric Perry <>
To:
Message-ID: <61v08h$>
Subject: Re: Ship 1817
richard noble <> wrote:
> I have a manuscript that says the sailing ship "Sir Edward Pillen" sailed
> from Greenoch, Scotland to Halifax in the spring of 1817.
> I am interested in confirming that the ship existed, and any information
> about it.
> Ric
--
/************************************************/
/* */
/* Blue Balls are better than no balls */
/************************************************/
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #16
Date: 14 Oct 1997 05:34:14 GMT
From: Oric Perry <>
To:
Message-ID: <61v08m$>
Subject: Re: Ship 1817
richard noble <> wrote:
> I have a manuscript that says the sailing ship "Sir Edward Pillen" sailed
> from Greenoch, Scotland to Halifax in the spring of 1817.
> I am interested in confirming that the ship existed, and any information
> about it.
> Ric
--
/************************************************/
/* */
/* Blue Balls are better than no balls */
/************************************************/
______________________________
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X-Message: #17
Date: 13 Oct 1997 22:53:56 -0700
From: (Tony Bull)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Where is Springbourne, Hampshire?
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Can any one help me, Springbourne, Hampshire is listed as the place of
birth of my grandfather (William E J Burbidge) by his farther in the 1881
cencis.
Tony Bull.
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X-Message: #18
Date: 13 Oct 1997 23:32:40 -0700
From: (Herps, Jos)
To:
Message-ID: <c=NL%a=_%p=Origin-it%l=>
Subject: HERPS
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This is the firts time I'm using this list. I hope I used it correctly.
Valerie Ross has written a book: "Matthew Everingham: a first fleeter
and his times".
In this book is mentioned the name: "Herps".
Since I am building up a family tree of "Herps" I am highly interested
in details.
For my own I have a dutch tree "Herps" starting in Holland in 1755 till
up to now but I have information there was a William Herps,
born 26-11-1691 at Coleshill,
Warwick, England.
As you shall understand I am looking for a link between the dutch and
english family tree and I shall appreciate it very much to learn wether
you can give me details and put me a step further.
Regards, Henk Herps
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------------------------------
X-Message: #19
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:32:18 +0100
From: Lesley Robertson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes/ Gunpowder Plot
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Abbots Technology Ltd wrote:
> Basically a group of Jesuits decided that the only way to deal with
> King
> James and his two houses of Parliament, after a long bout of
> disagreements, was to blow the whole lot up!
And led to the cry, in time of national stress, "Come back Guy Fawkes,
all is forgiven"!
Lesley Robertson ;}
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X-Message: #20
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:39:31 -0700
From: (Frank Mitchell)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Gloucestershire FHS
In article <>,
(Maurice Chaplin) wrote:
> >Hi! Can anyone help with a newbies first request - URL for
Gloucestershire Family History Society?
I don't have the URL for this FHS but if you log on to the Genuki site at
http://midas.ac.uk/genuki/
and follow the county links you should find it there (if they have one)
Frank Mitchell, Scottsdale, Arizona
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X-Message: #21
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:35:27 +0100
From: Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: What an Address!
In article <>,
Peter J King <> writes
> I'm obviously missing something here - what exactly is so funny
>about the address? Is it the country or the bird (or something else)?
>
It's because the British and Americans are two peoples divided by a
common language. Turkey over there has the additional slang meaning of
either a flop (for inanimate objects) or an idiot (for people). Does
that make it funny? Depends on what you find funny I suppose.
However, I do remember an American colleague collapsing in hysterics
when I drove him through a 7-lettered town between Leatherhead and
Horsham on the A24. :)
People of a sensitive nature - put away that map and dictionary!
--
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake
Drake Software web site at http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk/
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X-Message: #22
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 06:30:46 GMT
From: Charles Ellson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Aberdare, Scotland, 1820's
In article <c=AU%a=_%p=HIMAIL%l=HALMAIL001-971013
"Abela, Christine, Haltek/AU" writes:
> I am descended from Alexander THOMSON, born 1825 in Aberdare, Scotland.
> His wife (married 1848 in Aberdare), was Ann LEIPER (spelling varies),
> born in Aberdare in 1829.
>
> I would love to hear from anyone else researching these families, or who
> can tell me anything about Aberdare - where is it, what sort of town
> is/was it, principal industries, etc.
>
> One of their children married Alexander GRAY (born 1838, son of John
> GRAY and Mary McKENZIE) in Australia. He was born in Pannanich Cottage,
> Glenmuick, Aberdeen. Is/was this anywhere Aberdare? I am wondering
> whether the Grays and the Thomsons knew each other from "the old
> country", since Alexander and Mary Ann were both quite young when they
> married.
>
Aberdare is in Wales; I suspect you should be looking at, if not Aberdeen
itself, then possibly Aberdour in Fife.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson E-mail | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #23
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 06:35:14 GMT
From: Charles Ellson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes / Gunpowder Plot
In article <>
"Vvn Rbnsn" writes:
> Will be in London on November 5th. Where might we see some of the Guy Fawkes
> celebrations?
>
All over the ******* place, for most of the previous month if past
years are anything to go by. :-(
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson E-mail | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #24
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 06:39:22 GMT
From: Charles Ellson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Dallas
In article <> "S & J Gavel" writes:
> Would someone please tell me if there is a place in Scotland called
> "DALLAS" and if so, where it is located?
>
There certainly is, and it was there long before the place in Texas was
invented! It's about 8 miles SE of Forres in Morayshire, beside the River
Lossie, just of the B9010 road.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson E-mail | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
______________________________
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X-Message: #25
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 06:33:31 GMT
From: Charles Ellson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: OCCUPATION 'Z'
In article <01bcd817$2edfd640$>
"SR & CM Davy" writes:
> In the 1891 Census I have a 15 year old male relative who's "rank, trade or
> profession" is quoted as 'Z'. He also noted as being employed.
>
> Can any one tell me what this Z means? Is some enumerators code?
>
Possibly it's not "Z" at all, but the enumerators own style of "ditto" (same
again) mark.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson E-mail | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
______________________________
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X-Message: #26
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 06:26:06 GMT
From: Charles Ellson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Question on Census Records
In article <01bcd6dc$5a029880$>
"nancy middleton" writes:
> Could someone please tell from when to when does the census cover that we
> can obtain copies of!
>
For the whole UK, 1801 to 1891, but don't expect to find many surviving
records before 1841, or much information in them.
In Ireland, later censuses are available (1901 and 1911?) because of the
loss of (most of the?) earlier records.
Outwith the UK and Ireland, the widest available source of films of census
records is usually the LDS church (Mormons).
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson E-mail | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #27
Date: 14 Oct 1997 00:25:51 -0700
From: (Graham Pitt)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: BDM Numbers
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Births 187
Deaths 58
Marriages 101
Baptisms 4
Burials 11
Parish Marriages 1
Future updates will show only new additions
Best Regards
Graham Pitt:)
The BDM Exchange
<http://web.ukonline.co.uk/graham.pitt/bdm/>;
Computers For Charity
<http://web.ukonline.co.uk/graham.pitt/cfc/>;
Recycling Computers for use in the Community
This thread: