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Subject: GENBRIT-D Digest V97 #178
------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain
GENBRIT-D DigestVolume 97 : Issue 178
Today's Topics:
#1 Peace Memorial Hospital, Watford.. [ (Rob & Tracy Hear]
#2 Re: Fitzgibbon Earls of Clare [ (Y]
#3 West Chuton [ (Audrey Gr]
#4 Re: What is the surname ? Gif file [Susan J Hayton <]
#5 re: Bishop of Hertfordshire [ (Step]
#6 Marriage Age [Dave Smith <]
#7 Drivers Royal Artillery [ (Edmund ]
#8 Re: Guy Fawkes/ Gunpowder Plot [Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <]
#9 Re: 1881 census for England [Richard Nisley <>]
#10 EDITH HALL, Nottingham, c1913 [ (Gord Hillma]
#11 Re: hanged, drawn and quartered ["Ron Taylor" <.]
#12 OLD MONKLANDS LKS STRANGE DATES ["Ron Taylor" <.]
#13 Re: What an Address! [Peter J King <]
#14 Re: Guy Fawkes / Gunpowder Plot [ (Elizabe]
#15 Re: Job - Clerk of works ["SR & CM Davy" <>]
#16 Family tree Candlish/Gardiner ["Beth Candlish" <]
#17 Re: !!!!MONEY!!!! ["RCG" <>]
#18 Re: Dallas [David H Wild <]
#19 Re: Stracey as christian name [Robert Wilson <]
#20 GENBRIT Digest Vol 97 Issue 175 It [ (Peter De At]
#21 HOUSTON [ (]
#22 "Free Kirk" - Scotland []
#23 Re: Hanged, drawn and quartered [Dave Beames <.]
#24 Re: Genealogy Software []
#25 Hovingham Yorks PRs [ (Peter De At]
#26 Re: Where is Springbourne, Hampshi [Stuart Thomson <]
#27 Re: Dallas [J R Todd <>]
#28 RE: second hand genealogy booksell [ (Monica ]
#29 Re: Where is Springbourne, Hampshi [ (DougalWC)]
#30 Re: Peace Memorial Hospital, Watfo [David H Wild <]
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______________________________
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X-Message: #1
Date: 15 Oct 1997 07:38:17 -0700
From: (Rob & Tracy Heard)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Peace Memorial Hospital, Watford....
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Does anyone know anything about Peace Memorial Hospital in Watford.
Is it still a hospital?
When did it become a hospital?
What kind of hospital was it?
Tracy.
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X-Message: #2
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:48:29 GMT
From: (Yvonne Demoskoff)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Fitzgibbon Earls of Clare
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On 14 Oct 1997 21:05:03 -0700,
wrote:
>Does anyone know where I could obtain a family history (apart from
>those in Burke's Peerage etc.) of the Fitzgibbon Earls of Clare? I
>am particularly interested in any connection between this family and
>the Cavendishs at Lismore Castle. I am also interested in the
>families of the daughters of the 3rd Earl, Richard Hobart Fitzgibbon.
>
Have you tried Cokayne's *Complete Peerage*? Alternatively, you might
consider posting your question in <alt.talk.royalty> (where questions
of royalty *and* nobility* are welcomed and on-topic) or in
<soc.genealogy.medieval>. Good luck.
Yvonne
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X-Message: #3
Date: 15 Oct 1997 07:52:23 -0700
From: (Audrey Green)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: West Chuton
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Would anyone know where West Chuton might be or have been. It was listed as
a birthplace by a man living in Norfolk in the 1851 census.
I have checked all the gazeteers I can get access to but am unable to find it.
I appreciate you help
thanks
Audrey
hobart
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X-Message: #4
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:41:38 +0100
From: Susan J Hayton <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: What is the surname ? Gif file
In article <>,
Helen Parsonage <> writes
>In article <01bcd804$1b8e2320$>, "Grigor Mcleod"
><> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have an ancestor John Bowman who was born somewhere in Aberdeen area in
>> about 1852.
>> He was married on 28Nov, 1873 in Dundee.
>> The attached is a GIF extract from the marriage certificate.
>>
>> I know the mother's name was Mary Bowman and the reputed (?) father was
>> John ? - I cannot work out what the surname is.
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea what the surname is (from the GIF) , or could
>> it just be a made up name ?
>>
>Grigor
>I read TINCKERBOHNER. Got to be real - who could make up one like that !! : - )
>Suggest the spelling may be a little creative though, given the spelling
>of 'reparer'?
>Helen
>
Why not double check and see what it looks like in the 1881 Census whivh
is quite quick to check - assuming that he was still in the UK at that
time.
--
Susan J Hayton
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X-Message: #5
Date: 15 Oct 1997 09:02:44 -0700
From: (Stephen T.Moseling)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: re: Bishop of Hertfordshire
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kim Holly <> asked:
> I am just beginning to research the British side of my family and have
> several questions...if anyone would be kind enough to answer. My
> grandmother, now deceased, told me that her g-grandfather was the Bishop
> of Hertfordshire. This would have been sometime in the mid-1800's, I
> presume. All I know of him is his last name, THOMPSON. My questions
> are: What would be the best way to validate (or invalidate, as the case
> may be) this information? Where would I find the older church records
> in Hertfordshire? I would appreciate any help......
Much of Hertfordshire now comes under the Diocese of St.Albans, but this
Diocese was only founded in 1877. It has a Suffragan Bishop of Hertford,
but this also is a relatively new office, the first one being appointed in
1968.
Prior to 1877, much of Hertfordshire came under the Diocese of Rochester
and, because of the distance between the two areas, it is possible there
may have been a Bishop of Hertford at that time.
The best place for you to check, which would certainly have a more detailed
overview of the situation, is:
Lambeth Palace Library,
Lambeth Palace,
Lambeth Palace Road,
London
SE1
The Revd.Stephen T.Moseling, London.
GOONS #2533 KFHS #5527
Researching Moseling/Mosling/Moselen worldwide
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X-Message: #6
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:19:58 +0100
From: Dave Smith <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Marriage Age
I have a query on marriage ages around the late 1600s. Was there a
"legal" minimum? If so, how was it enforced, since at that time only
baptisms were recorded. Someone may have been baptised several years
after birth, although in such cases as age was frequently recorded.
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______________________________
------------------------------
X-Message: #7
Date: 15 Oct 1997 09:41:07 -0700
From: (Edmund Cookson)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Drivers Royal Artillery
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When the Royal Artillery was formed, the drivers were hired for the
campaign and were civilians attached. As this had serious shortcomings in
War, a corps of Royal Artillery Drivers was formed within the Royal
Artillery and are noticeable by being called Driver and Corporal rather
than Gunner and Bombardier. The Royal Horse Artillery had integral
drivers. This system stopped, I think, in the Army reforms of 1872, when
they all became Gunners and Bombardiers and the separate list of Officersof
the Corps of Royal Artillery drivers was stopped. Drivers, as you surmise,
drove the guns and ammunition and administrative wagons: the motive power
was normally fairly heavy horses, but would with heavy artillery be Heavy
Draught Horse (Cart Horses), or Oxen, or Elephants or Mules. The average
Field Battery would have about 200 horses.
It is possible that he was absent without leave, or some other misdemeanour
during his service: time spent AWOL or in detention would not count for
pensionable service.
Yours,
Ed in Cumbria/UK
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X-Message: #8
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:44:40 +0100
From: Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes/ Gunpowder Plot
In article <>, Les Beecher
<> writes
>Greetings all
>
>I believe St Peters school, York, Yorkshire does not celebrate
>the 5th of November -- apparently Guy Fawkes was an "old boy"
>
>Can anyone substantiate that?
>
The school he attended in York was known in its day as the 'Free
School'. I have no idea if it evolved into St Peter's, or if they just
decided to own him. He was born and raised in a Protestant family and
only later took to Roman Catholicism. Two of his fellow conspirators,
Thomas & Christopher WRIGHT were at the same school.
--
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake
Drake Software web site at http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk/
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X-Message: #9
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:48:05 -0400
From: Richard Nisley <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: 1881 census for England
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I looked up Atherton and found it was close to Manchester. I had a
Robert Scholfield who lived in Manchester in early 1900s. His father
and grandfather, Henry and Robert Scholfield lived in the neighboring
village of Burnley, and before that, the SCHOFIELD/SCHOLFIELD family
came from nearby Holme Chapel 1700-1800.
Keep my address handy in case you ever connect to my branch.
Joan
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X-Message: #10
Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:05:31 -0700
From: (Gord Hillman)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: EDITH HALL, Nottingham, c1913
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:13:14 -0400
>To: British Genealogy
>From: Gord Hillman <>
>Subject: EDITH HALL, Nottingham, c1913
>
>I am trying to help out a friend here in town find out more about his
grandmother. The only information he has is that she was a single domestic
servant by the name of Edith Hall when his father Edward Hall was born in
Nottingham. The birth took place at 4 John Street on 15 June 1913 (from
birth certificate). Nothing is known about her before or after that event
other than when Edward was married in 1943 his mother is listed as deceased
and no father was listed. Edward was adopted as a baby and there is no
knowledge of any siblings. Does anyone out there have any ideas on how to
find out more about this woman? Would city directories, cemetery listings
give us a clue? Can anyone who knows the Nottingham area give some
suggestions?
>
>Gord Hillman
>Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
>
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X-Message: #11
Date: 15 Oct 1997 18:09:27 GMT
From: "Ron Taylor" <>
To:
Message-ID: <01bcd994$4500d180$>
Subject: Re: hanged, drawn and quartered
It depended.
The sentence was quite specific "you shall be hanged..............but not
until you are dead.........while you are still living..............etc etc
(I have the exact full wording of the sentence if anybody wants it.
However, this was often ignored and the body hanged for 59 minutes (there
seemed to be something significant about less than an hour) But not always
sometimes it really was done while the victim was alive. I think it was Guy
Fawkes (but it may have been another of the conspirators) who jumped from
the ladder in an attempt to break his neck rather than hang. Unfortunately,
the rope broke so the other part of sentence was carried out immediately.
Daniel J. Murray <> wrote in article
<>...
> Lesley Robertson wrote:
> > > Hi Judy!
> > >
> > > >>It is true that anyone sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered
> > > was
> > > >>still alive when drawn and quartered?
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X-Message: #12
Date: 15 Oct 1997 18:17:11 GMT
From: "Ron Taylor" <>
To:
Message-ID: <01bcd995$59dde4c0$>
Subject: OLD MONKLANDS LKS STRANGE DATES
I have an entry from this Register which states that a marriage took place
on Dec 31 1850.
However, the entry is dated Nov 24 1850.
This same pattern of referring to marriages as having already taken place
at a future date occurrs throughout the Register.
Can anybody shed any light on this?
--
Ron Taylor
Mission, B.C.
Canada
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X-Message: #13
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:07:14 +0100
From: Peter J King <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: What an Address!
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On 13 Oct 1997, Ian wrote:
> Oh dear Peter. A philosopher as well 8-)
>
> Surely you know what a "Turkey" is to our American cousins?
>
> To call something a Turkey means it's naff, rubbish, useless, a waste of
> space. To call someone a Turkey, would be like calling them a Wally or a
> Dipstick.
But imagine what you'd think of someone who collapsed with laughter when a
garage mechanic referred to a dipstick, or shook with mirth every time
they met someone whose name was Wally...
Of course I knew that "turkey" had a third meaning - but "Turkey Street"
still didn't seem at all funny.
PJK
| http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0337 |
| http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2648/ |
| Philosophy resources, plus a good |
| deal more - both serious and recreational |
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X-Message: #14
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 18:20:28 GMT
From: (Elizabeth Power)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes / Gunpowder Plot
If you want to see a good fireworks display in London, be on the
banks of the Thames between Waterloo and Blackfriars bridges on
the Saturday of the Lord Mayors Show (8th Nov this year I think)
at about 17:00. If you have never seen the Lord Mayors Show the
procession is through the City of London starting about 11:00.
The Lord Mayor's carriage looks like something out of a pantomime
but is old and roadworthy and used every year.
Elizabeth
--
Elizabeth Power
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X-Message: #15
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:43:34 -0700
From: "SR & CM Davy" <>
To:
Message-ID: <01bcd99a$43402700$>
Subject: Re: Job - Clerk of works
A Clerk of Works checks that the builders have built what ever they are
building correctly including workmanship, the use of the correct materials,
depths etc. They are also employed including civil engineering work such as
bridges and highways.
Christine
Barry Chitty <> wrote in article
<>...
> What would this occupation entail, on a large building site, for
> example?
> TIA
> --
> Barry Chitty
>
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X-Message: #16
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:59:26 -0600
From: "Beth Candlish" <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Family tree Candlish/Gardiner
The tree at
http://www.cadvision.com/violetbook/fam.htm
has been prepared with Canadian background of the Candlish and Gardiner
surname and am interested in finding out information for the gaps.This is my
own design of tree so it is different! Thanks. Beth
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X-Message: #17
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:50:31 -0400
From: "RCG" <>
To:
Message-ID: <623746$lde$1@news2.voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: !!!!MONEY!!!!
Mark,
I tried what you said. Guess what it works! In the first day I made
238, 976 dollars. Boy was I surprised!
I also noticed by the end of the week that my waist line had gone from 37 to
a trim 32 inches. Even my psychic couldnt believe it. Then I won the
powerball lottery. What a week! And I owe it all to you buddy.
My wife says my manhood has increased a few inches and I must admit that
women are paying more attention to me.
Well, gotta go now, I am due at the whitehouse, they are awarding me the
Medal of Honor.
______________________________
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X-Message: #18
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:12:21 +0100 (BST)
From: David H Wild <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Dallas
In article <>,
Daniel A. Nowlan <> wrote:
> As long as we Texans don't find out that there is a Houston or an Austin
> in Scotland, too, I think we can restrain ourselves. After all, it is
> <italic>just </italic>Dallas. :)
But Houston *is* in Scotland, just west northwest of Paisley.
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | /
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/
Uploaded to newnews.dial.pipex.com on Wed,15 Oct 1997.20:52:59
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X-Message: #19
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:13:08 +0100
From: Robert Wilson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Stracey as christian name
In article <>, Ian Clapham
<> writes
>Has anyone else come across the name Stracey either as a first name or a
>surname.
According to the IGI one of my ancestors was called Stracey TILL - he
lived in Chipping Ongar in the earlier C18. There is also another
Stracey TILL, born 1825, also in Chipping Ongar.
I haven't had a chance to check the original records yet - a family
historian in the 1930s recorded the name as Stacey, but I don't know on
what authority.
--
Robert Wilson
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X-Message: #20
Date: 15 Oct 1997 13:25:42 -0700
From: (Peter De Ath)
To:
Message-ID: <l03110701b06acccc7aa0@[194.112.57.134]>
Subject: GENBRIT Digest Vol 97 Issue 175 Item 5 :CARFAX Horsham West Sussex
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Carfax (not The Carfax, as some latecomers to the town refer to it) is in
Horsham and is situated in the centre of the town.
Much altered in recent years (as is the whole of the town). In the 1930's,
it contained shops, inns, the Town Hall at which the Assize was held,
surrounding a large open circular area, It is now mainly modernised shops,
pubs, building societies, Estate Agents and is completely "pedestrianised".
It is bounded by The Causeway, which is the most attractive part of the
town and contains many historic houses, leading down to the Parish Church.
The original meaning of Carfax is "where 4 roads meet", and I believe that
would be East Street (Butchers Row), West Street, North Street and The
Causeway.
Hope this helps
Regards
Peter DeAth (East of London FHS 0037)
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X-Message: #21
Date: 15 Oct 1997 13:32:09 -0700
From: (ANDREW WALLACE)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: HOUSTON
As long as we Texans don't find out that there is a Houston or an Austin
in Scotland, too, I think we can restrain ourselves. After all, it is
<italic>just </italic>Dallas. :)
Daniel
Sorry Daniel if the following raises your blood pressure but I'm afraid there
are two Houstons in Scotland (three if we include the late Renee of music hall
fame) The oldest of the two is about 4 miles WNW of Paisley and I suggest
that is where the Texan Houston took it's name from }8-O The other Houston
is part of the new town of Livingston in West Lothian.
If you would like a wee taste of our Dallas try and lay your hands on a bottle
of Dallas Dhu whisky. The Distillery is no longer operational (I believe it
is now a whisky museum) but I am sure there are still some bottles in Texas --
we sent all our best stuff to you! Regards, Andy.
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X-Message: #22
Date: 15 Oct 1997 13:33:42 -0700
From:
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: "Free Kirk" - Scotland
What can anyone tell me about the "Free Kirk" in Scotland? My Ggrandparents
were married in a Free Kirk at Townhill, Dufermline, Scotland. I know
nothing about this except I've been told that "The Free Church" refused to
give the LDS access to their pre-1855 records, etc.
Any historical info whatsoever would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
Lori Ray
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X-Message: #23
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 00:06:08 GMT
From: Dave Beames <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Hanged, drawn and quartered
Andrew Talbot Hopkinson () wrote:
>
> Judy Ramsey wrote in message <>...
> >It is true that anyone sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered was
> >still alive when drawn and quartered?
> >
> >Truly a deterent to people if this IS true
> Yes it is. They were cut down whilst still alive. I've heard that the
> expression "Go take a running jump" comes from the fact that victims would
> make a dash for the edge of th e scaffold and jump off as soon as the rope
> was put round their necks in the hope of breaking their necks and dying
> instantly. Guy Fawkes tried but the rope broke.
It was also fairly common that either the criminal or his friends would
hire a man, who would in effect rugby-tackle the criminal as soon as the
noose tightened and hang on with all his weight for as long as possible,
again either breaking the guy's neck or strangling him quickly.
DaveB
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X-Message: #24
Date: 15 Oct 1997 14:14:36 -0700
From:
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Genealogy Software
I am so pleased to hear the praise given Brothers Keeper. I have used it for
many years, and have always recommended the program to others. The new BK
for Windows produces an excellent variety of charts and reports. At such a
modest cost in comparison to others on the market, it proves more money does
not always buy a better product!
LaRae Halsey-Brooks
Los Angeles, California
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X-Message: #25
Date: 15 Oct 1997 14:22:23 -0700
From: (Peter De Ath)
To:
Message-ID: <l03110700b06aeed47987@[194.112.57.71]>
Subject: Hovingham Yorks PRs
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello List members,
Does anyone have easy access to the PRs of Hovingham, North Yorkshire?
If so, I would be most grateful if a member could look up the marriage of
John MASON and Hannah UNKNOWN, which took place (according to FamilySearch)
on 19 Nov 1857. I am anxious to find the brides surname and residence,
and the profession and residence of the groom, plus any other relevant
information. No trace in GRO registers
TIA
Peter DeAth (East of London FHS 0037)
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X-Message: #26
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:32:48 +0100
From: Stuart Thomson <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Where is Springbourne, Hampshire?
In article <>, Tony Bull
<> writes
>Can any one help me, Springbourne, Hampshire is listed as the place of
>birth of my grandfather (William E J Burbidge) by his farther in the 1881
>cencis.
>
>Tony Bull.
>
If nobody comes up with any better reply I suggest, Springbourne which
is a parish of Bournemouth, now in Dorset, formerly in Hampshire and
probably once quite separate from Bournemouth.
Stuart Thomson
--
Stuart Thomson At Christchurch England
" where time is pleasant "
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X-Message: #27
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:50:46 +0100
From: J R Todd <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Dallas
The message <>
from (Daniel A. Nowlan) contains these words:
> >>Would someone please tell me if there is a place in Scotland called
> >>"DALLAS" and if so, where it is located?
> >>
> >Help! This could start a war when the Texans find out that theirs is
> not
> >the original - well at least theirs is a little bigger....
Well, it would be wouldn't it:-)
Richard
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X-Message: #28
Date: 15 Oct 1997 14:37:40 -0700
From: (Monica Dwyer Abress)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: RE: second hand genealogy booksellers
(Robert Sterry) wrote:
>Anyone got any ideas on how I might locate a now out-of-print book on my
>family name?
>"The Sterry Family of America 1670-1970", Walter Smith, 1973 (Privately
>printed for limited distribution, Monoline Press Ltd, Israel.
Try a couple of places: www.amazon.com (They have a lot of out of print
books
If you're Irish, there's also a really great book called The Surnames of
Ireland by Edward MacLysaght. I have a copy and it has never failed me, until
now. I looked up Sterry and couldn't find anything. Is there any chance of a
different spelling long ago? Or perhaps, the more logical answer is, you're
not Irish.
Monica in Minnesota
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X-Message: #29
Date: 15 Oct 1997 21:39:24 GMT
From: (DougalWC)
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Where is Springbourne, Hampshire?
>Where is Springbourne, Hampshire?
I believe it may in fact be in Bournemouth, Dorset!!
I used to live some years ago in Springbourne, Bournemouth, which is now a
sub-area of Bournemouth at the eastern end of Holdenhurst Road, which runs all
the way into the centre of Bournemouth - a distance of about two miles.
However, Springbourne used to be a separate village - and here's the
crunch....until about 20(?) years ago Bournemouth, and hence Springbourne,
were in Hampshire! They moved into Dorset in the County Boundary
reorganisations.
Hope this is of help.
Dougal Wilson-Croome
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X-Message: #30
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:40:07 +0100 (BST)
From: David H Wild <>
To:
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Peace Memorial Hospital, Watford....
In article <>,
Rob & Tracy Heard <> wrote:
> Does anyone know anything about Peace Memorial Hospital in Watford.
> 1. Is it still a hospital?
> 2. When did it become a hospital?
> 3. What kind of hospital was it?
1. No; as far as I know it's now a hospice.
2. Sometime after the first world war - that's the "Peace"
3. General
--
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|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | /
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
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