GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2002-03 > 1016448179
From: Patrick Guinness <>
Subject: [DNA] New AMH Nomenclature
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:42:59 +0000
At 10:55 am -0700 16/3/02, Allan S. Gleason wrote:
>It will be fun trying
>to figure it out. I hope Mark and Patrick really get into a discussion on it.
Find this page and download Fig. 1 - more if you have time.
The AMH / haplogroup 1 is in (or includes all) the new Hgs R1b* thru
R1b8. (at bottom)
R1a etc. = old-style Hg3
R1b* Let's call ourselves 'The Ribs' for now. You'll see that they
still haven't figured out which came first.
R1b8 = Hg22, according to the YCC paper, and Hg22 (mainly Basques &
Catalans) also includes the AMH STR signature 14-12-24-11-13-13.
[I'm sorry if some of you use a different order, but that's the
sequence used by the rest of the world.]
If you find the same STRs in close haplogroups, it becomes important
to know which Hg you're in, unless you have a genealogical lineage to
work with. I'm beginning to see how the AMH in Europe is likely
subdivided within the R1bs. That means that the AMH remained a
dominant modal pattern after the R1bs emerged.
Certainly the 'Norse' haplotypes are seen in the other formerly-Hg2
or -Hg3 groups, which are now seen to be distant from each other.
That means a 'Viking' test from the various companies is just a guess.
If you look at Table 2 in the YCC paper, you'll see some Ribs
described as 'English', 'German', Russian' and 'Porch Creek'.
Go back to the colour chart Figure 1, expand to 400%, and look at the
mutations leading to the Ribs - P25, M73 etc.
Then go to Peter Underhill's original paper which lists these SNPs,
at Nature Genetics, Vol. 26, Nov 2000 and correlate the mutation
numbers with those on his chart at p. 359 as best you can. Magnify to
at least 400%. (to him, Hg1 and Hg3 = 'Hg IX'). Then at p.360 check
out where these have been found (several dozen from Europe,
For better colour graphics, maps etc., the SNP details (M73 etc.),
but nothing more on R1b, see Underhill's similar paper in the Annals
of Human Genetics (2001) vol 65, pp. 43-62. Now you know as much
about the R1bs as anyone.
So a) there's not much to discuss, Allan, but b) these will all
tell their (our) story as data comes on-stream in future and c)
other R1bs may be found.
|[DNA] New AMH Nomenclature by Patrick Guinness <>|