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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2002-04 > 1019689432


From: "Grant South" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] A Big Thank You!
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:03:52 +1000
References: <JCHBN.020423.162601.RC0@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>


Thank you for your reply.
In terms of discerning the genetic mix and the respective contributions of
the Celts, Picts and Britons. Would a study of deduction not isolate the
respective Y-lines in terms of there mutations. Bretons in France would give
a sample Y-line for Brythonic Celts as I believe has been found in the South
and middle of Ireland and Wales. Further the Clan Stewart in Scotland is
also of Breton descent. The Clans MacNaughtons of Scotland are believed to
be Picts from Necthan. And further there is the Britons of Strathclyde such
as the Carmichaels [Caer-Michael], and the Clan Moncreiffe, etc.
I think our Scots DNA group may shed light on these Y-lines as we go.

Has any other British DNA been derived from remains?
And what of the Roman influence, with 3 centuries of colonisation many
families must descend, have Y-lines been identified for this group as yet?

Kind regards
Grant South


----- Original Message -----
From: "John F. Chandler" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] A Big Thank You!


> Grant wrote:
> > 1] As Cheddar man has been tested and a descendant found ...
>
> If I remember correctly, he was tested for mtDNA. A matching sample
> of mtDNA in a modern human does not indicate a descendant, since a man
> does not pass on mtDNA.
>
> > 2] And has a time been given for a common shared ancestor for Brythonic
Celts,
> > Gaels and ancient Britons [Proto-Celts]?
>
> What makes you think the "ancient Britons" were Proto-Celts? The term
> "Celt" is a linguistic one, and the "Proto-Celts" would have to be a
> people existing before the split of the Celtic language into Brythonic
> and Goidelic branches, i.e., a very long time ago and almost surely
> somewhere in central Europe. There is no evidence at all about the
> language(s) spoken by inhabitants of Britain before the arrival of
> writing, nor is there any way to untangle the linguistic and genetic
> heritages of the British population, since Julius Caesar didn't think of
> preserving a few thousand tissue samples when he was there. The study
> done by Wilson et al. indicated a date for the common ancestor of the
> haplogroup 1 population of Britain between 3000 and 18000 years BP
> (depending on the mutation rate), but we have no way of telling the
> respective contributions of the original inhabitants and the Celtic
> invaders to the genetic mix of the modern population.
>
> John Chandler
>
>
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