GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

From: "Richard McGregor" <>
Subject: Re: Fw: [DNA] Haplogroup origins (Carden Project)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:14:17 +0100
References: <DAV1049rsk7g6eh93Im000083b7@hotmail.com>

Dear list

Just to clarify something in Patrick's list - the McGregor line he refers to
is mine not the Chief's ,and I
am not directly connected to the main McGregor line according to the 3 known
family connections
who have tested. I am waiting for a few more results to come in and then I
will be putting the
results up on the Clan Gregor webpage.

Richard McGregor


> Here are some matches (DYS389i/ii numbers converted):
> Carden #1 14 12 24 10 13 13 13 29 12 12
> Guinness 14 12 24 10 13 13 13 29 12 12
> McGregor 14 12 24 10 13 13 13 29 12 12 (Chiefly line)
> Grace 14 12 24 10 13 13 13 29 12 12 (A Norman line)
> And for comparison:
> AMH 14 12 24 11 13 13 * * * * (1 mutation)
> McTiernan 14 12 24 11 13 13 13 30 * 12 (2 mutations)
> Milligan 14 12 25 11 14 13 13 29 * 12 (3 mutations)
> O'Shea 14 13 24 10 13 13 14 31 * 12 (3 mutations)
> Hg2 modal 15 13 24 10 11 15 * * * * (4+2 mutations)
> (Note: 4+2 mutations indicates mutations at 4 loci totalling 6 steps.)
> The other Carden line seems pretty distant, although DYS388 appears to be
misreported (9 is not a possible result, so I have assumed a nomenclature
difference with OA and plugged in 12, which I suspect is right). Also,
DYS389i/ii appears to be a valid result in this one (perhaps this came from
a different lab, or OA changed their reporting conventions?). Applying the
conversion forumla, one would get 15,43, which is impossible. It sure
whould help if these guys standardized!
> Therefore:
> Carden #2 15 12 23 11 13 13 12 28 12 12 (5 away from Carden #1)
> Comparisons to Carden #2:
> Carden #2 15 12 23 11 13 13 12 28 12 12
> AMH 14 12 24 11 13 13 * * * * (2 mutations)
> Ellis 14 12 24 11 13 13 12 28 * 12 (2 mutations)
> McTiernan 14 12 24 11 13 13 13 30 * 12 (4+1 mutations)
> O'Shea 14 13 24 10 13 13 14 31 * 12 (6 mutations)
> Milligan 14 12 25 11 14 13 13 29 * 12 (6+1 mutations)
> Rice 1673 14 14 23 10 11 13 12 28 * 11 (5+2 mutations)
> Dunham D 15 14 22 10 11 13 12 28 * 11 (5+2 mutations)
> Hg2 modal 15 13 24 10 11 15 * * * * (5+2 mutations)
> On balance, both Carden haplotypes appear to be consistent with Hg1, but
they suggest significantly different paternal ancestries. Carden #1 is
consistent with a Gaelic ancestry, while the exact origin on Carden #2 is
less clear. The closest surname match is the Ellis sample, a Saxon name.
> Of course, with a data set of only 10 markers, one cannot make any fine
determination, and the collection and interpretation of data on a global
scale is only in its infancy. However, I think it is pretty safe to state
that the two Carden samples probably have a common paternal origin if one
goes back to Neolithic times (i.e., probably before the last Ice Age which
peaked about 18,000 years ago), but a common paternal ancestor on a
historical time scale is quite improbable.
> Please feel free to post this to the discussion group. I am trying to
limit e-mail volume, so I have not subscribed.
> Best,
> Patrick
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dr. Patrick M. O'Shea | Saint Mary's University
> Department of Music | 700 Terrace Heights #1447
> Vox (1) 507.457.1598 | Winona, MN 55987 USA
> Fax (1) 507.457.1439 | <>
> www2.smumn.edu/facpages/~poshea/
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

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