Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2002-10 > 1033741024

From: josie bass <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Term Black Dutch
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:17:04 -0400
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In-Reply-To: <001101c26b0f$d7cc3100$06bff60c@r8j9p6>

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Hi, this is the way my father's side of the family described themselves
"Black Dutch" - and they were quite proud of it! they came to America from

Schwarzwald - Black Forest - Forested mountain region of SW Germany along
the upper Rhine between the Neckar and Swiss border. SWARTZ - modern
German spelling is SCHWARZ.

Wurttemberg - Region and former kingdom of SW West Germany between Baden
and Bavaria; chief city Stuttgart; once a duchy, kingdom 1813-1918, state
1918-1945; divided 1945-1951, S part being joined to Hohenzollern forming
Wurttemberg-Hohenzollern state and N part to N Baden forming
Wurttemberg-Baden state; since 1951 part of Baden-Wurttemberg state.


Johann Schwartz married Caterina Ester MUELLER 20 May 1759 in Lancaster
Borough, PA. My 4th gps. Their son Baltas (Leobathasar) m. Margaret HUPPMAN
(HOFFMAN) abt 1790; their son Henry m. Melissa Miller of
Phillips/MIller/Soule(Mayflower desc.) - so that is the first break in our
Black Dutch ancestry. The name was changed from Schwartz to Swartz during
Henry's lifetime.

Schwarz were Lutherans and Swartz were Mennonites some of whom became
Baptists, Disciples, Methodists and RLDS. My gms brother d. about 1934, he
had a very prosperous business, he changed his name to BREWSTER, he said he
got tired of telling people no, I am not Jewish.

Anyone having any info of the above please write


At 12:05 PM 10/3/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>The black Dutch I know of
>Are Germans from the Black forest
>1700's prior to the formation of Holland or Germany
>All those who spoke the Deutsch language (which means the language of
>the people)
>And came from the region known as the Black forest
>I hope you are having a fine day !
>I am Jim Rader
>My web site is at
>I hope to hear from you again soon!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kay Martin [mailto:]
>Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [DNA] Term Black Dutch
>Crystal, I've been studying the Black Dutch term for 22 years. When I
>married my husband in 1980 his mother told me that she is Black Dutch. I
>replied "Great, what is that?" and she answered that she didn't know -
>she had hoped that I would. So the search was on.
>There are so very many meanings - the Melungeons used the term, several
>Native American tribes used it (possibly all of them), the Roma
>(Gypsies) used it, apparently some Jewish people used it. Possibly some
>former slaves crossing the color line used it. Other groups include, I
>am told, Huguenots and Walloons, Spanish who intermarried with the Dutch
>in Holland and later came to the US... the list seems endless. My
>conclusion was that it means whatever the family using it meant by it. I
>think that in our family it probably means Native American, probably
>Choctaw or Cherokee.
>For many families it was obviously a cover up term because they were not
>"European white", and it seemed to be something protective that they
>taught their children - telling the kids that, if ask, to tell people
>they were "Black Dutch". It may well have become a habit over
>generations, however, and used long after there was any outward
>indication of other races/tribes.
>Sorry if I'm off topic, Ann! I suspect that many of us are looking to
>DNA to solve what our families meant by Black Dutch.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Crystal
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:33 AM
> Subject: [DNA] Term Black Dutch
> >I have much the same problem with our "Black Dutch"
> > tradition.
> Just curious about this term.. I thought it meant a
> German Jew - a term brought on by the war when Jews
> hid their ancestry.. it's just recently that I've
> heard this term. So I'm guessing it has more than one
> meaning? .. Just curious since we were told my gma had
> some black dutch.. but so far from what I've been able
> to find 1. her parents were here back in the 1800's,
> 2. they look to have been from Finland and England and
> poss. Ireland.
> So basically for what are the different things the
> term "black dutch" is used.
> Just curious.
> Thanks.
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Josephine Lindsay Bass
Confederate Southern American
216 Beach Park Lane
Cape Canaveral, FL 32920
My Southern Family,
Becky Bass Bonner Email:
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