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From: Patrick Guinness <>
Subject: [DNA] Scots-Irish
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:53:47 +0000


Probably the Scots became a little 'more Germanic' after 800AD, and
developed their own English dialect, which includes a lot of Norse
words.

But the name 'Scotti' was what the Romans called the Irish who
conquered much of Scotland after 300AD. These then blended with
Picts, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, the Strathclyde Britons and some
Normans by 1200. A complete mix by 1600.

The prevalence of famous Scottish Mac- surnames reminds us that many
took surnames when they were still speaking Gaelic. The name stuck,
but their language, religion and politics changed.


The 'Scots-Irish' tended to be poor settlers from Scotland into
Ireland, mainly Ulster, in 1600-1800, who then moved on to America,
as it was hard to earn money in Ireland.

Any pacification was organised from London, and most Scots arrived
after any trouble was over. Certainly from an farming viewpoint they
were no more progressive than the Irish - oats and sheep were it.
They built up a sizeable linen industry after 1700, but the know-how
came from 500 Huguenot refugees.

Often they were surplus labour on their landlord's estate in
Scotland, so he shifted them over to work on his new Irish estate.
They had little choice.

Being presbyterian in Scotland was usual, but in Ireland all the best
jobs went to Anglicans after 1700, and the presbyterians were often
as much discriminated against as the Irish catholics. In America
there was no appreciable discrimination against any religion


Some moved on at once, some intermarried with Irish girls and then
moved, some stayed for generations before moving. There was no
pattern, beyond that there was no opportunity in Scotland - nor then
in Ireland - so a one-way ticket to North America was their only hope.

If you were a wealthy or educated Scot in 1700-1800, you lived in
Edinburgh or gravitated towards London and Paris.

PG


At 6:46 am -0400 6/10/02, wrote:
>As to whether the Scotch-Irish were truly Scots, I have also run across the
>statement that they were actually more Germanic (English) than Gaelic, since
>the border was racially arbitrary.
>
>Many are thought to have come from the English side of the border also, as
>the large tracts were divided between English and Scottish landlords. It is
>assumed that they each obtained tenants from their other manors.
>
>The main purpose was to pacify Ireland. Thus, we can expect that they would
>use people from either side, as long as they were loyal to the king. It was
>not an easy task, as Northern Ireland was large a wilderness. Moreover, they
>were in the midst of a largely hostile native population. The Ulster
>population consisted of fierce tribes who seemed to be racially distinct from
>their southern neighbors.
>
>It would be interesting if DNA tests do detect a largely Germanic composition.

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