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From: "JULIAN ENRRIQUE CAMPBELL" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Blonde Hair, Fair Skin and Native American
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:10:17 -0700
References: <20030501071313.22643.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com>


David: The tale or historian said that in Sonora Mexico, at the time of the
visit of Heran Cortez, nerast to 1500, there was a tribe named "MAYOS" and
they were blonde and white skin. Today we can see descendent of them that
teher a blondes an whites. Let me find the approach of some Historian, anad
I will confirm it. Julian Campbell. P.S. Excusme by my writing, but today
English is not my ntive languaje.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:13 AM
Subject: [DNA] Blonde Hair, Fair Skin and Native American


> Listers: I have changed the name of the thread concerning this matter
since it has nothing to do with the Pennsylvania Dutch. For this reason I
have not edited the postings below in case there are some who did not read
them, since the heading did not reflect the issue being discussed. In
general I would agree with what Grant says below - except I will adopt a
more extreme position. To the best of my knowledge, there are were no
reliable reports of any groups of early contact Native Indian peoples where
Blonde hair and fair skin have been documented (in the literature I have
read) - please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read a lot of the
anthropological literature. What has, howver, been documented is that there
were groups that who had "relatively" light hair and skin. In addition the
concept of "pure" is way beyond unlikely in the instance described in the
posting below. There have been "contacts" between Native Americans since
the 1500s and perhaps earlier - and !
> therefore an exchange of genetic material. I have Six Nations ancestors
living during the early 1800s who had blue eyes, yet had a mother and father
considered by the Chiefs in Counsel to be to be Mohawk. The reality is that
both parents were extensively mixed according to the genealogical research I
have done. A Canadian government archaeological report of 1897 stated that
the last "pure" Six Nations Indian that had even a modicum of a claim to
"realtively pure" Native American ancestry died in the latter years of the
1800s. Recall that Dr. Tony Frudakis and others have concluded that it
would take a minimum of 33% of some minority DNA for an individual to show
physical traits associated with that group. For this reason and others I
would conclude that the individuals in question would have less than a third
"pure" Native DNA on the DNAPrint test. It is doubtful, but entirely
unknown, whether they would show Y and mtDNA haplotypes found among Native
North American po!
> pulations - again testing would resolve this so that their paternal and
maternal haplotypes would be known. My suspicion is that, if the
information provided is correct in terms of what was heard, that at most the
children had two parents who were registered as Indians by the BIA - but
whose DNA was largely from European sources. At the risk of repeating
myself, DNA testing and would clear up all this speculation. David.
>
> wrote:In a message dated 4/30/03 7:35:55 PM Pacific
Daylight Time,
> writes:
>
> > details aren't needed here.....but I did hear one of the ladies say,
> > "....and the two children, sister and brother, are PURE American Indian
AND
> > you would never know it.....they are both blonde as can be and very
fair."
> > I didn't want to speak out much on their subject, but I did say that a
DNA
> > test could be run to see if, in fact, the children are A.M. Was I
correct?
> > Also, IS it possible that "American Indian..." in
> > the pure form, could be blonde and fair??
>
> If they are 100% Native American the girl's and the boy's mtDNA would have
> one of the NA haplotypes. There are 5 of them, designated Haplogroup A, B,
C,
> D and X. Each of these is defined by a specific set of markers. If each
child
> has the same mother they would have the mother's mtDNA and that would
prove
> the maternal line was NA, (if it was one of those 5. )
>
> Also, FTDNA does a test for NA in a straight male line. The boy could be
> tested for that. I've never looked into the Y line test for NA but I'm
pretty
> confident FTDNA is capable of doing what the say they can do. If he proved
to
> be NA through the male line you would then know that their father
descended
> from a male NA line and their mother descended from a female NA line.
>
> However, I don't think there is any way to prove beyound a doubt that the
> other ancestors are 100% NA. You could do a DNAPrint on the children. If
> those 70 markers tested 100% NA you could probably assume they were
primarily
> NA -- but that is not 100% certain.
>
> I've never known a fair skinned, blond Indian, but I don't think it is
> impossible. My personal knowledge of NA is those from the Deep South,
> Oklahoma, and the Western States and Mexico. And we must keep in mind that
> genetic diversity exist in all populations, even those with a small
founding
> population. So a fair skinned, blond child could come about if the right
> combinations of genes are present in the parents. However, having one
child
> like that would be rare. The odds of a brother and sister both being fair
if
> their parents are pure NA must be astronomical. A more plausible
explanation
> is that the parents have some European genes.
>
> The person saying they were 100% NA probably believed that statement. In
> fact, the parents may have European ancestors but believe they are 100%
NA.
> We've had enough time for the genetic blending to happen and be forgotten
by
> those involved.
>
> I know this is not the proof you wanted but it is the best we can do with
> current testing.
>
> Grant Johnston
>
> "The nice part about living in a small town is that when you don't know
what
> you're doing, someone else does." -- Unknown,
>
>
>
> ==============================
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go to:
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>
> Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA
>
>
>
>
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