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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-06 > 1054620894


From: Philip Ritter <>
Subject: Re: RE: [DNA] Haplotype/Haplogroup survey
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 23:15:04 -0700
In-Reply-To: <20030603030838.8905.qmail@station187.com>


Thanks, I see the "proposal" that M170 originated with descendants of men
associated with the Gravettian Culture. In the Semino paper, M170 is said
to be ~22,000 years old. I still don't see how that date fits with the
date for the common male ancestor for P19/M170 of 5,950 +/- 2,45 on your
website (http://www33.brinkster.com/dienekesp/nrytree.html). Is the
norming sample used by the YCC referring to a later point (after the origin
of M170) when the population was reduced so that only a single ancestral
individual left descendants who are today's I? In that case the STR
marker values that are the modal I haplotype would stem from the putative
ancestor who lived roughly 6,000 years ago, not their M170 ancestor of
roughly 16,000 earlier.

Either way, it seems likely that there would be time for a few lines to
converge (at least as close as 8 out of 12 markers). Perhaps someone else
could do the math to estimate how likely an I descendant would be 4 markers
away from an R1b descendant in the 6,000 person Hammer database

At 03:08 AM 6/3/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> >> Do you have a source for the following statement: "Haplogroup "I" is
>thought to stem from a group (Gravettian culture) that arrived in Europe
>from the Middle East about 25,000 years ago?"
>
>I is equivalent to Eu7,Eu8 from Ornella Semino's paper which can be read
>here.
>
>http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf
>
>The ages of the mutations are based on the norming sample used by the YCC.
>Haplogroup I is not of Neolithic origin, since it occurs at a high
>frequency in Europe, not in the source areas of the Neolithic.
>
>
>==============================
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