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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-06 > 1056282895


From: "David B. Strong" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Tom's Y-DNA Test Results
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 04:54:55 -0700
References: <10d.2643cd12.2c25ff11@aol.com>


Hi Ann...

Yes, you were over-interpreting a bit... mostly I am curious. I do
suspect there is some relationship, not necessarily in a genetic sense,
between the fact that the DYS 393-12 and DYS 459a=10 markers are apparently
relatively rare and seem to occur together, and the fact that some of the
persons I have contact with in my Donegal Bay Strong lineage belong to Blood
Group B. To try to explain further:

John Chandler confirmed my speculation that in an endogamous
population a dominant blood group would tend to maintain over a long period
of time, whereas in an "exogamous" population, it would probably diversify
out. That tends to confirms
my belief that the Donegal Bay Strong lineages were part of an endogamous
community. One thing I am thinking about taking on is a broader Y-DNA
study of the other lineages in the Donegal Bay Community, and along the way
I may take a closer look at the Blood Groups of the participants. Again, I
am curious; would the B group appear in the other lineages in the same
community? I suspect so.

In private email exchanged with Bonnie Schrack, we have speculated that the
DYS 393-12 and DYS 459a=10 markers MAY be indicative of a sub-clade of
R1b... I hope I'm not out of line in quoting Bonnie here:

"I think there are sub-clades of R1b that have more affinity with Central
Asia, etc., than others. I found some information that's fascinating, as
far as it goes, about the subclades of R1b as found in the YCC chart. The
clade defined by the SNP M73 is supposed to be found in Central Asia and/or
Siberia, according to the data in Underhill et al, "Y chromosome sequence
variation and the history of human populations," from Nature Genetics, vol
26, Nov. 2000. They found 6 R1b people with M73 in Central Asia/Siberia.
"This is one of eight sub-clades of R1b.....

"It's too bad that FTDNA's REO and haplogroup databases don't provide the
whole string of DYS marker values for the individuals who they say are
one-step, two-step, etc., matches. We don't have any way of knowing at
which markers they differ.

"The big problem is that you all can't get tested for M73 or any of these
sub-clade markers yet -- but just wait a few years! "

I would be quite interested in a SNP test if it could define whether I was
a member of such a sub-clade!

Since Blood Group B has been associated with certain Asian populations, the
9th Chromosome ABO gene may be traveling in the same migration pattern that
somehow got the DYS 393-12 and DYS 459a=10 markers "planted" in County
Donegal, Ireland, in a Scots-Irish community. I am curious about that
migration pattern in a general sense. I don't ever expect to be able to
"nail it down" to specific individuals... but the pattern may link us to
some events in history when the migration may have taken place..... were our
ancestors there when the Huns invaded Rome? Were they enlisted into a Roman
legion which subsequently was sent to Brittany or Normandy in France? Did
their descendants invade England with William the Conqueror? Did they
resettle to Scotland in the 12th century? Then it was a mere 400 years
until they were transplanted to Ireland....
Interesting stuff to a history buff !

Thanks for your interest and thanks to all who have participated in the
Genealogy-DNA list over the past couple of months... I have learned a good
deal, just reading the mail as it came in... It almost becomes addictive!
{:-)

However, I have places to be and things to do, so must unsubscribe for now.
I will try to catch up through reading the archives sometimes. And if
anyone happens to learn of a great discovery linking the Y-chromosome
markers with the 9th Chromosome ABO Blood Group gene, please send me a
private email to let me know! {:-)

Regards

Dave Strong

====================

----- Original Message -----

From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Tom's Y-DNA Test Results


> In a message dated 06/19/03 4:46:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> writes:
>
> > Bonnie...
> > Please welcome your friend Tom to the wonderful world of "12";
DYS393=12,
> > that is.... Is his blood type "B"?
>
> I may be over-interpreting your comment, but I wondered if you were still
> trying to make connections between Y haplogroups and blood types, or if
your
> question was just curiosity. There was quite a flurry of messages on the
topic a
> couple of weeks ago, some with good source attribution and some more
> speculative. I believe most erroneous statements were corrected, but it
was probably
> hard to keep things in order.
>
> The ABO blood types are very old, millions of years -- in fact, they
predate
> the split between the hominids and other primates (gorillas, chimps) -- so
the
> various Y haplogroups originated on a background of whatever blood type
was
> common in the local population. You do find differing frequencies of blood
> types in various geographic locations, but that is due to primarily to
genetic
> drift (random changes, including founder effects from small groups
migrating into
> new locations) and perhaps some selective advantage for certain infectious
> diseases.
>
> Since the genes for blood type are on chromosome 9, there will be no
lasting
> connection between blood type and haplogroup. In fact, founding father of
a
> haplogroup may not even pass on his blood type to his sons.
>
> Ann Turner - GENEALOGY-DNA List Administrator
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