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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-07 > 1057168608
From: <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] NYTimes.com Article: Celtic Found to Have Ancient Roots
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:56:58 -0700
References: <00c101c340a5$35bfa740$bc00a8c0@PRESARIO> <005501c340b7$37cf9650$a070dccb@Grant>
Dalriadans -- from Ulster and founders of Scotland as an identity -- are
thought to have had patrilineal kingships, in contrast to the matrilineal
Picts with whom they are thought to have unified to form Scotland as it has
historically identified.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant South" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] NYTimes.com Article: Celtic Found to Have Ancient Roots
> Hi Cheryll
>
> We say Ulster Scots in Australia, as this differentiates them from the
> Gallowglass Scots being Scottish Clans whom settled earlier in Ulster
being
> of either Gaelic or Viking descent such as the Sweeney's [MacSweeny] of
> Donegal and the Macdonald's, etc.
>
> Yes I was talking about those who are identified as native Gaels being
> members of the ancient Celtic Clans of Ulster.
>
> All the best.
> Grant South
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cheryll Reed" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [DNA] NYTimes.com Article: Celtic Found to Have Ancient Roots
>
>
> >
> > By Ulster Ireland, am I safe in assuming you mean the original occupants
> > and not the Ulster Scots who were transplanted there (known in the U.S.
> > as the Scotch Irish)?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Grant South [mailto:]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:32 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] NYTimes.com Article: Celtic Found to Have Ancient
> > Roots
> >
> >
> > Yes I do think that both haplogroups G* and J2 are Celtic.
> >
> > Haplogroup G is found to have the greatest frequency in this order.
> >
> > 1.Georgia
> > 2. Abazinian Ethnic group's
> > 3. Ulster Ireland*
> > 4. Azerbaijan
> >
> > In the article Dr's Foster and Toth put forward a split in the
> > continental and British versions of Gaelic as being approx. 3200BC.
> >
> > I also see the Neolithic migration reaching the 'Isles' at approx. 4000
> > BC. In Ireland only Neolithic Court Tombs are found in the north and
> > dated at approx. 3500 BC. This is further confirmed by the Neolithic
> > introduction of pottery to Ireland. Evidence in co.Tyrone suggests
> > Neolithic settlement dating at various cites between 3900-3000 BC.
> >
> > As we find a large representation of HgG* in Ulster this supports the
> > theory of an early Neolithic Celtic migration from the continent,
> > further supported by the estimated Gaelic split.
> >
> > Sites on both sides of the Celtic sea further suggest the migration
> > route was over the Scotland-Antrim link. On the Irish side of this link
> > in Ulster is found HgG*.
> >
> > Based on the information at hand, Neolithic migration out of both the
> > 'Fertile Crescent and the 'Caucasus Mountain's being placed around 8100
> > BC, and it took 4000 years for these ancestors to make their way to the
> > 'Isles'. In terms of R1a or R1b being Celtic I believe it is without
> > doubt that they spoke Celtic tongues and those identified as Celt's were
> > an admixture of all those peoples met along the Neolithic path of
> > migration over a period of 4000 plus years.
> >
> > In terms of the Neolithic haplogroup's and their new status as Celtic,
> > it is, I believe, also now without doubt that the Indo-European language
> > group was developed within Neolithic culture and introduced to
> > Palaeolithic Europe, with farming and associated technologies.
> >
> > And so I uphold that the Neolithic Haplogroup's of G & J in the 'Isles'
> > are also Celtic being members of the Indo-European cultural migration
> > which made they way to the Isles over a period of 4000 years and were
> > part of those peoples who spoke the Indo-European Celtic group of
> > languages, being themselves the Indo-Europeans.
> >
> >
> > All the best.
> > Grant South
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Williamson" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] NYTimes.com Article: Celtic Found to Have Ancient
> > Roots
> >
> >
> > > I wrote:
> > > "I suggested J2 as an "Indo-European" haplogroup in the sense that if
> > > J2
> > is the haplogroup associated with the spread of Neolithic farmers into
> > Europe from western Eurasia, and if these farmers were speakers of
> > Indo-European..."
> > >
> > > Then I noticed that Family Tree DNA associates R1a with the first IE
> > speakers, who they equate with the Kurgan culture (anyone see the movie
> > "Highlander"?). I guess it depends on which theory you subscribe to:
> > that the bringers of IE languages to Europe were nomadic pastoralists,
> > or that they were Anatolian farmers. Maybe it was both?
> > >
> > > No one knows (yet), which is why there are a range of theories among
> > historians & archaeologists.
> > >
> > > Steve W.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
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> > >
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> > >
> >
> > ______________________________
> >
> >
> > ==============================
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records,
> go to:
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> >
>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
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>
>
>
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