Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-08 > 1060830962

From: "Cecelia Clancy" <>
Subject: [DNA] Amish and the Rest of PA Germans
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:16:02 -0400
References: <009701c36076$aa4ce780$6501a8c0@RJEMAIN> <003501c3614b$a6283440$8595a6d1@Garnet> <> <001201c361c5$0d674870$3c9d72d1@Garnet> <> <>

When I supplied that URL in which is says that "the English Quakers and
German Amish" took in Native American refugees, I did qualify that with
words to the effect that "not all the Pennsylvania Germans are Amish and not
all the Amish live in Pennsylvania."

Even though the URL mentions only the Amish and the Quakers, I was wondering
if other Pennsylvania German groups in addition to "the Amish" took in
Native American refugees - you know, Dunkards, Schwenkfelders, various Swiss
Calvinist sects, many other Anabaptist sects, and even the Lutherans. All
these religions were among the colonial Pennsylvania Germans. There just
were not any Catholics (at least not openly) because when the British were
in the European mainland recruiting people to come to America, they
deliberately excluded Catholics.

And the URL might have also been making the mistake as saying "the Amish"
when they really meant "Pennsylvania Germans."

I'm not familiar with the author of that URL author of that URL. I just
tossed it in for consideration.

If somebody raised the possibility of crypto-Jewisness as a possible
explanation for EA showing up in PA Germans, it was not me. There are some
other posts I have not yet read for the past few weeks, so maybe somebody
else did.

My proposal was only that some PA Germans might have taken in Native
American refugees.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Why Crypto-Jews Need to Remain Secret (was Testing for
CCR5-delta32 - for Ashkenazi or Melungeon groups)

> All:
> The significant "East" Asian content in significant numbers of people of
> German ancestry and PA German ancestry has very, very little, if
> anything statistically to do with the so called "Crypto-Jews" and
> "Amish" repeatedly being discussed by some in this forum as a possible
> source of the East Asian content and I have removed the EA Germans from
> the subject line of my reply to that thread. I am PA Deutsch and am an
> experience genealogist with 27 years experience in researching PA German
> families in Lehigh and Berks Co PA. Here is my definition of who the PA
> Germans (aka PA Dutch) are:
> The Amish religious group is often being brought up in this forum. The
> very, very small Amish religious group is repeatedly being brought up in
> the same thread with the East Asian results issue found in some Germans
> and PA Germans. Being Amish has very little or nothing to do with this
> East Asian issue and who the PA Germans (aka PA Dutch) are. Amish is a
> religious group. Such threads just further confuse the issue of who the
> PA Germans are. The Amish are a very small "self-identified by their
> religion" sub-group of the much larger PA German ethnic group and
> culture. The terms should not be used in a manner which implies
> interchangeability of the terms. The Amish are self-defined by their
> religion not their cultural customs and ethnic ancestry. Ask any "Old
> Order Mennonite", another religious group in Lancaster County PA and
> other areas, who have very similar life styles and customs to the Amish.
> But they are not Amish. The Mennonites pre-date the Amish. The very
> small religious groups such as the Amish are very small religion based
> groups in the larger PA German culture which is not defined by a
> specific religion. These small religious groups are just trying to
> maintain the way of life that existed in older times, from times when
> all PA Germans practiced a similar life style. But the vast majority of
> the PA Germans have modernized. The Amish and Old Order Mennonites and
> some other groups stick to the old life styles for religious belief
> reasons. Again, the PA Germans (aka PA Dutch) are composed of people of
> many religions, but are overwhelmingly mostly protestant. Don't confuse
> small groups of people such as the Amish as being analogous to the PA
> German (aka PA Dutch) group as a whole.
> These Germanic people, now known as the PA Germans (aka PA Dutch) ethnic
> group, who came to Pennsylvania by the hundreds of thousands prior to
> the Revolutionary War are overwhelmingly of German, Swiss, and French
> Huguenot origin. They were of various religions. Mostly Lutheran and
> Reformed. Of course a few were of the Jewish "religion". And of course a
> few took in Native American orphans and/or inter-married with Native
> Americans. But the relatively few Native American intermarriages in the
> 1700's could not statistically result in "East" Asian minority content
> being preserved to today in the ranges of 6-21% being reported in a
> significant number of Germans and PA Germans being tested. And this
> "crypto-Jewish" theory as a possible source is statistically not
> possible either. The overwhelming numbers and vast majority of the
> immigrants who became known as the PA German/PA Dutch people were not
> Jewish and were not intermarried with Native Americans. These germanic
> immigrants married within there own kind with endogamous marital
> customs. These hundreds of thousands of Germanic immigrants coming to PA
> prior to the Revolutionary War were the founders of this cultural group
> in PA and in my opinion they brought the Asian content with them from
> southern and Europe and preserved it to this day by their endogamous
> marital customs. Also, coincidentally, I was just contacted yesterday by
> email of a German national who was just tested with the DNAPrint test
> who had significant Asian content reported by the DNAPrint test and yet
> has no known genealogical source for it despite solid genealogical
> evidence of their ancestry going back 300 years. The "East" Asian
> content in some Germans and PA Germans is of ancient origin according to
> my studies of this issue so far. How ancient and the exact source(s) are
> unknown as of yet. My study project is pursuing this "East" Asian
> results in PA Germans further and my theories as to its source are
> stated in my project site.
> Charles
> ==============================
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