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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-06 > 1086145073


From: "Bernd Burgey" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 23:57:53 -0300
References: <a06020402bce27ec29a8d@[194.125.131.44]> <BAY4-DAV116fvOXvxDZ00014f01@hotmail.com>


Now we are getting somewhere: Back to square one! The brick wall I'm
pounding my head on just got raised another foot, because of I1c!
My whole DNA Excursion was based in solving the mystery of my
forefathers beyond the paper trail which fads out between 1700 and
1600.
My Grandpa told me that his ancestors had to live England because of
there *Catholic* religion. After many years of research I thought it
looks more like Mennonites from the Swiss. But there was no real
paper proof either! And I could not fully disregard the British
Isles, because of some hints:
My family name *Burgey* with variations is found in the British
Isles as well in the Swiss area around Bern! The Highland of Bern
are THE Mennonite Hotspot! But the first known Burgey,Barke, Barkey
immigrated from Westphalia to the Pfalz [Palatinate] on the left
side of the river Rhine. His occupation was *Tobacco maker* in 1656!
That's when the first tobacco was introduced in Germany on his Way
from England over the Netherlands.
There is more to this I1c story: After the 30 years war in Germany
(1618 - 1648) large parts of Germany where wiped out and Germany was
resettled. To give one number. In my hometown I found for 1590 in a
tax census 105 family names. Some of it had three to five Families.
After the war there where 7 [seven] names left. It was worst in the
left side of the Rhine. Many Villages just disappeared and where
never rebuild. In this empty space moved within the next few years
over
50 000 Mennonites from the Swiss Highland of Bern. Everything points
to Celtic stock. I think it was Mrs. Siiri Rootsi who says in a
different paper: "Mountainous areas are the backwaters of migration,
that's why the Basques survived". The Celts where no worriers. They
where Farmers and retreated before the Germanics peacefully
(Tacitus). Some to Spain, others to France and to the British isles.
I guess some Family clans retreated off the beaten path into the
Bern Highlands. Now I mach my DYS Numbers with two to three
mismatches to Scottish Clans like Stirling and others in Ireland
and stand with my second foot in the Berner Oberland with two to
three mismatches and OA tells me my roots are Danish or Anglo Saxon!
What a mess!
Is there somewhere a Mennonite DNA Project going on?
I had to cut a long story short, because I suspect most of you know
all this anyway, but there would be more to the peopling of Germany
and the Mennonites which finally almost all emigrated to the States.
I hope my upcoming FTDNA Upgrade-results will clear the air.
Regards to all
Bernard

-- Original Message -----
From: "DONALD MILLIGAN" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a


> Perhaps, Bronze Age Beaker/Hallstatt folk from Switzerland similar
to the "Archer of Stonehenge" who had garb from Switzerland?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Guinness<mailto:>
> To:
<mailto:>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:50 AM
> Subject: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a
>
>
> At 3:17 pm +0100 1/6/04, gareth.henson wrote:
> >The Y-str database suggests a potential I1c "hotspot" at Berne,
Switzerland
> >where 6 out of 91 entries are 0-2 steps from the following
haplotype:
> >DYS19 = 15, DYS389 = 14,31, DYS390 = 23, DYS391 = 10, DYS392 =
12, DYS393 =
> >14, DYS385 = 15,15.
>
> Certainly the Irish I1c samples have DYS385 14,15 or 15,15 or
15,16
> or 15,17, and "high" 393 *14 or *15. DYS388 is usually *13. Last
> year I thought it was group G.
>
> I1c doesn't seem to have a cultural / linguistic / area on which
to
> hypothesise an invasion or ethnic group. It's been in the
British
> Isles since before 1AD but some Norse or Anglo-Saxons must have
> brought it west as well. Useful for genealogy as it is rare.
>
> --
> Patrick Guinness
>
> Reply to: <mailto:>
>
> http://www.furness-house.com/<http://www.furness-house.com/>;
> ======================
>
>
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>
>
> ==============================
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Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
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