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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-06 > 1086145853


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:10:53 -0600
References: <a06020402bce27ec29a8d@[194.125.131.44]> <BAY4-DAV116fvOXvxDZ00014f01@hotmail.com> <001b01c4484d$675c4b40$085db18e@c1k4r6>


Bernd, Can you share some of your repeat numbers at some key loci? Or are
you obviously R1b?

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernd Burgey" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a


> Now we are getting somewhere: Back to square one! The brick wall I'm
> pounding my head on just got raised another foot, because of I1c!
> My whole DNA Excursion was based in solving the mystery of my
> forefathers beyond the paper trail which fads out between 1700 and
> 1600.
> My Grandpa told me that his ancestors had to live England because of
> there *Catholic* religion. After many years of research I thought it
> looks more like Mennonites from the Swiss. But there was no real
> paper proof either! And I could not fully disregard the British
> Isles, because of some hints:
> My family name *Burgey* with variations is found in the British
> Isles as well in the Swiss area around Bern! The Highland of Bern
> are THE Mennonite Hotspot! But the first known Burgey,Barke, Barkey
> immigrated from Westphalia to the Pfalz [Palatinate] on the left
> side of the river Rhine. His occupation was *Tobacco maker* in 1656!
> That's when the first tobacco was introduced in Germany on his Way
> from England over the Netherlands.
> There is more to this I1c story: After the 30 years war in Germany
> (1618 - 1648) large parts of Germany where wiped out and Germany was
> resettled. To give one number. In my hometown I found for 1590 in a
> tax census 105 family names. Some of it had three to five Families.
> After the war there where 7 [seven] names left. It was worst in the
> left side of the Rhine. Many Villages just disappeared and where
> never rebuild. In this empty space moved within the next few years
> over
> 50 000 Mennonites from the Swiss Highland of Bern. Everything points
> to Celtic stock. I think it was Mrs. Siiri Rootsi who says in a
> different paper: "Mountainous areas are the backwaters of migration,
> that's why the Basques survived". The Celts where no worriers. They
> where Farmers and retreated before the Germanics peacefully
> (Tacitus). Some to Spain, others to France and to the British isles.
> I guess some Family clans retreated off the beaten path into the
> Bern Highlands. Now I mach my DYS Numbers with two to three
> mismatches to Scottish Clans like Stirling and others in Ireland
> and stand with my second foot in the Berner Oberland with two to
> three mismatches and OA tells me my roots are Danish or Anglo Saxon!
> What a mess!
> Is there somewhere a Mennonite DNA Project going on?
> I had to cut a long story short, because I suspect most of you know
> all this anyway, but there would be more to the peopling of Germany
> and the Mennonites which finally almost all emigrated to the States.
> I hope my upcoming FTDNA Upgrade-results will clear the air.
> Regards to all
> Bernard
>
> -- Original Message -----
> From: "DONALD MILLIGAN" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a
>
>
> > Perhaps, Bronze Age Beaker/Hallstatt folk from Switzerland similar
> to the "Archer of Stonehenge" who had garb from Switzerland?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Patrick Guinness<mailto:>
> > To:
> <mailto:>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:50 AM
> > Subject: [DNA] Differentiating I1c and I1a
> >
> >
> > At 3:17 pm +0100 1/6/04, gareth.henson wrote:
> > >The Y-str database suggests a potential I1c "hotspot" at Berne,
> Switzerland
> > >where 6 out of 91 entries are 0-2 steps from the following
> haplotype:
> > >DYS19 = 15, DYS389 = 14,31, DYS390 = 23, DYS391 = 10, DYS392 =
> 12, DYS393 =
> > >14, DYS385 = 15,15.
> >
> > Certainly the Irish I1c samples have DYS385 14,15 or 15,15 or
> 15,16
> > or 15,17, and "high" 393 *14 or *15. DYS388 is usually *13. Last
> > year I thought it was group G.
> >
> > I1c doesn't seem to have a cultural / linguistic / area on which
> to
> > hypothesise an invasion or ethnic group. It's been in the
> British
> > Isles since before 1AD but some Norse or Anglo-Saxons must have
> > brought it west as well. Useful for genealogy as it is rare.
> >
> > --
> > Patrick Guinness
> >
> > Reply to: <mailto:>
> >
> > http://www.furness-house.com/<http://www.furness-house.com/>;
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> >
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