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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b Across Europe
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:04:12 -0600
References: <LAEMICGGMBKIADLLMIJEIELDDFAA.terry@bartonsite.org>


Unfortunately YHRD has no Scotland regional database. When I say "Britain"
I basically mean the indigneous people of the British Isles prior to the
Germanic/Scandinavian settlements.

My three detected separate R1b modal populations are for 390, 391, 385a,b

24 11 (11,14) --- "Iberian/Irish"
23 10 (11,14) --- "Germanic"
24 10 (11,15) --- "Iberian2"

where my names are just names reflecting patterns I see in the geography of
their distribution.

You are 1-step from "Iberian/Irish", 2-step from "Germanic", and 3-step from
"Iberian2"

I think the top one is the Atlantic Modal Haplotype.

When I plot the percentages of all three strains for regions throughout
Europe (not eastern Europe) it is clear to me at least that the three spread
independently of each other to some extent.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Barton" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: [DNA] R1b Across Europe


> Ken, I hope you'll continue this discussion with the learnings on DYS385
for
> R1b. Our Barton Lineage I has the 24/11 at 390/391 that you have
correlated
> to Iberia, Paris & Ireland R1bs. (We trace this Barton Lineage I to
> Lancashire in the 1600s. The Barton name is there back to the 1200s, but
we
> haven't made that link yet)
>
> Our 385 is an unusual 10/14 instead of the typical 11/14, so I am quite
> curious to hear what you found at 385.
>
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:11 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b Across Europe
>
>
> David, I found evidence for three modal haplotypes of R1b (probably
> representing sub-clades) with different geographical distributions in
> Europe. DYS390 and DYS391 are the clearest separators, although I also
see
> weaker correlations of those markers with 385a,b as well. Let's stick to
> 390/391 for this discussion.
>
> Iberia and Paris and Ireland are very heavy on the 24/11 at 390/391. NW
> Germany and Holland and Denmark are clearly heavier on the 24/10 and
23/11.
>
> Scandinavia shows an interesting combination indicating a robust
settlement
> of R1b from the Iberian source and then additional influx of the more
> Germanic variety of R1b. I find Denmark fascinating. Both with the R1b
and
> with the I1a, Denmark is more like Holland and NW Germany than it is
> Norway/Sweden. Geography tells part of the story, of course. It's a
clear
> case where the genetic patterns are set before the linguistic.
>
> As I mentioned in one of my messages to the List of a couple weeks ago, I
> did not extend my analysis into eastern Europe because the numbers of R1b
> fell off fast. Good luck over there getting statistically significant
> results.
>
> This analysis was done thanks to existence of the YHRD database.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Faux" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:54 AM
> Subject: [DNA] R1b Across Europe
>
>
> > Good day from LA:
> >
> > I spent part of last weekend extracting data from Ysearch. My goal was
to
> see if there was a difference between R1b in Spain or Ireland and that
> further east in say Poland.
> >
> > There were insufficient numbers to include Scandanavia (my prime area of
> interest) and Spain. In addition there were not enough 37 marker
haplotypes
> uploaded to Ysearch so I had to content myself with using 25 markers.
> >
> > My sample included 55 whose ancestor in the male line were from Ireland,
> 42 from Scotland, 27 Germanic (Germany, Switzerland and Holland), and 13
> Eastern European (Poland, Russia, Hungary).
> >
> > The results of my search are presented in tablular form at:
> > www.davidkfaux.org/EURODNAHaplo.htm . It appears that the conclusions
are
> quite obvious - but you can see for yourself.
> >
> > David.
> >
> >
> > Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA
> >
> >
> > www.davidkfaux.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
>



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