GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-08 > 1091461868
From: "Roberta J. Estes" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] J2 HG in Scotland
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:51:18 -0400
Do you have an estimated publication date and where should we watch for
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] J2 HG in Scotland
Ellen et al.:
For the percentage of J2 in the tribes of Central Asia see, Zerjal et
al., "A Genetic Landscape Reshaped by Recent Events: Y - chromosomal
Insights into Central Asia", Am. J. Hum. Genet., 71:466-482, 2002. As to
the evidence you request, I have already gone on record saying that my
40 page manuscript is being reviewed by Dr. James F. Wilson of the
University of Edinburgh. I presented an overview of the historical,
archaeological and DNA evidence in a recent posting. That is all I am
prepared to do until the paper is peer reviewed and published. David.
Dr. David K. Faux
P.O. Box 192
Seal Beach, CA 90630
-------------- Original message --------------
> I'm not sure I understand your point as clearly as I'd
> like to- could you clarify for me? Are you saying
> that R1a found in Scotland and Norway are tied to
> Altai region, and therefore you want to explore the
> possibility that J2 is as well?
> I'm all for exploration. But what is the proof that
> J2 moved from the Altai to Britain (or from the Altai
> to Norway and hence to Britain)? What is the proof
> that J2 was there in Central Asia in any great numbers
> and has distinctive haplotypes that we are now finding
> in Britain (but not Turkish or Lebanese, hence the
> differentiation between Neolithic farmers and
> Samartians)? This seems purely hypothetical to me.
> What are the distinctive sub-clades of J2 that are
> found in Central Asia?
> R1a is different than J2- it developed in southern
> Russia very near the Altai mountains. Does anyone
> even know the amount of J2 in the Altai region today?
> Or in groups believed to have originated in the Altai
> region (like the Kets, who have now moved further
> I continue to ask the questions in my previous
> posting: where is the evidence? This would include
> archeaological, linguistic, historical and - most
> importantly - DNA evidence. And how can the J2 (and
> it's various sub-clades - let's not forget about them)
> be differentiated in Central Asia (Kazakhstan, let's
> say) from those in Turkey/Syria/Lebanese J2 from those
> in England? Can they be?
> Ellen Coffman
> --- Doug McDonald wrote:
> > ellen Levy wrote:
> > > Hi List:
> > >
> > > I hate to play devil's-advocate here, and hope no
> > one
> > > will take offense, but how do you know that J2 in
> > this
> > > case is Sarmatian in origin versus the Neolithic
> > > farmers (versus the Romans)?
> > Another point, especially concerning R1a in
> > Scotland,
> > Norway, and other northern areas:
> > How do we know that one region with a high R1a
> > content
> > is the source of similar R1a haplotypes in another
> > region (of low or moderate R1a content) rather than
> > the
> > source of both being some intermediate region? The
> > R1a
> > people in question could have long since left the
> > latter.
> > We of course know quite well, and this is not my
> > question,
> > where R1a originally came from, the question is
> > about the
> > interesting haplotypes that tie some Scots (i.e. me)
> > and Norwegians
> > to people in the Altai.
> > The exact same question applies, of course, to the
> > J2.
> > Doug McDonald
> > ==============================
> > Gain access to over two billion names including the
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