GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-08 > 1093378033


From: "Mark MacDonald" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:07:13 -0500
In-Reply-To: <002b01c489f0$c5e40d30$cce289d1@Ken1>


Ken
My study clearly supports your Scottish conclusions concerning 10 at
391. For the R1bs of MacDonalds, McDaniels and related spellings from
the Clan Donald study, we have 21 of the 13 24 14 10 and 22 with 11 at
391. This overall group comes from the highlands of Scotland, the
Hebrides and Ulster in Ireland. When we add McKeans, McReynolds,
McQuiston and other names from the Lordship of the Isles, there are 29
at 14 10 and 36 at 14 11. The more we go from Scotland to Ireland, the
higher the percentage of 14 11s but there was so much trade and
gallowglass mercenary movement within the single gaelic community of
Northern Ireland , the highlands and islands that the answer to Scotland
or Ireland can often be answered "which century".

The MacGregors, Campbells, Stewarts, MacMillans and Livingstons of
Lismore share Clan Donald's substantial percentage of 14 10 within R1b.
Mark MacDonald

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:41 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades

See my R1b charts and map at http://www.worldfamilies.net

DYS 390, 391 = 23, 11 represents a higher percentage of R1b in Germanic
continental areas, reaching its peak percentage in NW Europe and
Netherlands. But Norway and Sweden R1b returned to the 24, 11 dominance
of
Iberia and France. 24, 10 was a harder motif to relate to geography on
the
continent, with the exception that one could see that its percentage did
not
soar like 24, 11 as one went back toward Iberia. The YHRD database is
very
weak in its coverage of British Isles, so I think your observation about
24,
10 being common in Scotland is interesting and significant. A couple
months
ago I remember a bunch of people with ancestry in Scotland complaining
to me
that their 24, 10 seemed dominant and why wasn't I picking that up? Ask
YHRD why they avoid the British Isles?

I have wondered on a number of occasions why Norway and Sweden more
match
the Franco-Iberian R1b rather than Germanic? One idea is that the
Atlantic
R1b moved up there early and first, before a separate Germany-centered
R1b
spread from its place of origin.

I am picking up some cluster structure in R1b involving some of the new
Sorenson database markers not included in YHRD data, but the clustering
is
weak so I can't yet quote the results. But stay tuned.

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades


> Ken et al.:
>
> I went bleary eyed last night trying to see patterns in R1b (P25) with
the
simple premise - there should be clear differences between Scottish
Highland
and Norwegian profiles.



==============================
Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237


This thread: