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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-08 > 1093379619


From: "Chris" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:33:39 +0100
References: <000901c48a15$f2a5e080$130110ac@macdonaldlaw.com>


I haven't really been following this discussion so appologise if way off the
mark. Just a point re the Norse/Swedish & French connection. The Norman's
from Normandy were of course interconnected with the viking races. The term
of course meaning Northmen. Hence, when the Norman's invaded England the
alliance with Harold Hardrada King of Norway. Of course the French Coasts
and Coasts of Spain and Portugal must often have been stopping points for
the sea faring norse.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark MacDonald" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades


> Ken
> My study clearly supports your Scottish conclusions concerning 10 at
> 391. For the R1bs of MacDonalds, McDaniels and related spellings from
> the Clan Donald study, we have 21 of the 13 24 14 10 and 22 with 11 at
> 391. This overall group comes from the highlands of Scotland, the
> Hebrides and Ulster in Ireland. When we add McKeans, McReynolds,
> McQuiston and other names from the Lordship of the Isles, there are 29
> at 14 10 and 36 at 14 11. The more we go from Scotland to Ireland, the
> higher the percentage of 14 11s but there was so much trade and
> gallowglass mercenary movement within the single gaelic community of
> Northern Ireland , the highlands and islands that the answer to Scotland
> or Ireland can often be answered "which century".
>
> The MacGregors, Campbells, Stewarts, MacMillans and Livingstons of
> Lismore share Clan Donald's substantial percentage of 14 10 within R1b.
> Mark MacDonald
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:41 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades
>
> See my R1b charts and map at http://www.worldfamilies.net
>
> DYS 390, 391 = 23, 11 represents a higher percentage of R1b in Germanic
> continental areas, reaching its peak percentage in NW Europe and
> Netherlands. But Norway and Sweden R1b returned to the 24, 11 dominance
> of
> Iberia and France. 24, 10 was a harder motif to relate to geography on
> the
> continent, with the exception that one could see that its percentage did
> not
> soar like 24, 11 as one went back toward Iberia. The YHRD database is
> very
> weak in its coverage of British Isles, so I think your observation about
> 24,
> 10 being common in Scotland is interesting and significant. A couple
> months
> ago I remember a bunch of people with ancestry in Scotland complaining
> to me
> that their 24, 10 seemed dominant and why wasn't I picking that up? Ask
> YHRD why they avoid the British Isles?
>
> I have wondered on a number of occasions why Norway and Sweden more
> match
> the Franco-Iberian R1b rather than Germanic? One idea is that the
> Atlantic
> R1b moved up there early and first, before a separate Germany-centered
> R1b
> spread from its place of origin.
>
> I am picking up some cluster structure in R1b involving some of the new
> Sorenson database markers not included in YHRD data, but the clustering
> is
> weak so I can't yet quote the results. But stay tuned.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:11 AM
> Subject: [DNA] R1b - Clusters and Subclades
>
>
> > Ken et al.:
> >
> > I went bleary eyed last night trying to see patterns in R1b (P25) with
> the
> simple premise - there should be clear differences between Scottish
> Highland
> and Norwegian profiles.
>
>
>
> ==============================
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>
> ==============================
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