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From: "Ginny Manning" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] A Western Europe I1b distinct from Eastern Europe I1b
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:07:02 -0700
References: <004401c490fb$35ee3090$e2e289d1@Ken1> <001101c49118$30d64d50$d3e289d1@Ken1>


Ken, by your E and W figures...........if one has DSYs 390 - 23 391 - 10
385a - 14 385b - 14 388 - 14 what would they be?

ginny


> I slightly mispoke in the message below of this morning. I said at the
end
> of the message that the Rootsi et al paper did not have the DYS388 marker.
> They did. But out of 220 I1b haplotypes, they had only 6 with DYS388 =
15.
> So the bimodality driven by a Western European contribution (which they
> minimally had) got lost. Someone looking at the database from that paper
> could have been courageous because the count for DYS388 = 14 was only 3
next
> to the count of 207 at DYS388 = 13, therefore making the 6 at DYS388 = 15
a
> hint of bimodality, but that did not occur to me at the time; I blew that
> off as "statistical flucuation".
>
>
>
> > A very observant genetic genealogist from Finland whose own paternal
> ancestry is I1b of the Eastern Europe "Dinaric" form has found a distinct
> second variety of I1b which is apparently concentrated in Western Europe
> rather than Southeastern and Eastern Europe. Calling them E and W,
examples
> of these two varieties some basic markers are
> >
> > E: 24, 11, (14, 15), 13
> > W: 23, 10, (12, 15), 15
> >
> > at DYS 390, 391, (385a,b), 388
> >
> > I went to Sorenson database last night to quantify her discovery. It
> seems decisive. Using DYS 455 = 11, YCAIIa,b = 21, 21, DYS393 = 13,
DYS426
> = 11, and DYS438 = 10 as identifier for I1b and filler to satisfy Sorenson
> entry rules, I then obtained the counts for various combinations of the
> relatively slow mutating markers, DYS 388, 391:
> >
> > 13, 10 --- (24)
> > 13, 11 --- (40)
> >
> > 15, 10 --- (42)
> > 15, 11 --- (0)
> >
> > 14, 9 --- (0)
> > 14, 10 --- (1)
> > 14, 11 --- (2)
> > 14, 12 --- (0)
> >
> > Last June I noticed that the I1b population used in the Rootsi et al
paper
> was bimodal at DYS391. I tried and failed to correlate that bimodality
with
> another marker because the other markers used in that paper, other than
> DYS19, really did not look bimodal: DYS388 had not been included. We
see
> now that the DYS391 bimodality is present in the Eastern Europe DYS388 =
13
> population, but don't yet know if we can learn anything interesting from
> that?
> >
> >
> >
> > ==============================
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>
>
>
> ==============================
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