Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-09 > 1094535647

From: "Dennis Garvey" <>
Subject: R1b - or R*?
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:40:55 -0700

It's possible that there may be something interesting brewing as far as
useful SNP testing for European "R1b's".

I posted a message at the end of last year that mentioned a surprising
result from Drs. Butler and Vallone at NIST:

A study of Y-SNPs in 100+ American males found that 13 (11%) of 114
Caucasian American men had a mutation at M207 (haplogroup R) , but did not
have mutations at SRY-10830b (R1a) or P25 (R1b). That would put them in
haplogroup R*. (The study didn't included M173, so they could actually be
R1* instead of R*). The results of this study implied that about 20% of the
men who think they are R1b's may actually be R* (or R1*). The results of
Butler and Vallone's study can be seen here:

Last Friday Vet posted a message about recent results of the European EDNAP

The EDNAP paper has pie chart maps showing that the R1b's seem to "quit"
about halfway across Europe. They found about 30% of the men in parts of
Germany and Austria belonged to some branch of P (any of Q, R*, or R1* - but
not R1a1, R1a, or R1b), but with virtually NO R1b men.

An examination of 20 most common haplotypes in from Muenster,
Germany (one of the regions in which the EDNAP study found no R1b's) shows
that 10 of those 20 most common haplotypes are what I would have called R1b.
In fact, five of those ten haplotypes differ from the modal 9 marker R1b
haplotype at only a single marker.

As I mentioned in my earlier posting, I can't recall hearing of anyone on
this list receiving an SNP result of R* or R1*. So what's going on here? Is
it possible that something of this magnitude could have slipped through the
cracks all this time?

(Charles - you may want to get an early order into the factory for the R*
and R1* pins!)

Dennis Garvey
Y-Chromosome Haplogroup Website

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