Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-09 > 1095271065

From: Havelock Vetinari <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] "The Irish are Not Celts" - but Conway, Flynn, McHugh and Ruane certainly are
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:57:45 -0400
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>

You should read the following book which says that there is no
archaeological evidence for any Celtic invasion of Ireland:

"In Search of Ancient Ireland: From Neolithic Times to the Coming of
the English" by Carmel McCaffrey and Leo Eaton.


On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:21:30 +0100, Malcolm Dodd <> wrote:
> A Lister writes,
> 'I am always wary to see these issues as black and
> white. Mostly they are gray - Ireland is most likely
> genetically composed of a mixture - a lot of
> indigenous, Paleolithic/Neolithic elements mixed with
> a number of other groups that moved into various parts
> of Ireland (and Scotland and Wales) after this time
> period.'
> That is true - and it should be strogly emphasised that parts of Ireland do
> indeed have a population that has remained isolated and is definitely not
> mixed.
> I would recommend an article by Dr. Emmeline Hill of Department of Genetics,
> Trinity College, Dublin in which she says
> "Connaught men are the most Irish of the Irish"
> "Connaught family names include Conway, Flynn, McHugh and Ruane and are
> considered to be Gaelic Irish.
> Surnames in Ireland have been passed from father to son for almost 1,000
> years.
> Men with Gaelic surnames coming from the west of Ireland are descendants of
> the oldest inhabitants of Europe.
> The prevalence of ancient genes in Ireland suggests that the Irish have
> largely maintained their pre-Neolithic genetic heritage. There has been
> little genetic influence from outside the country since the first people
> came to Ireland almost 9,000 years ago.
> The most striking finding was that in Connaught, the westernmost point of
> Europe, almost all men (98.3%) carry this particular gene. This means that
> the people of Connaught have been relatively isolated, genetically, from the
> movements of people that shaped the genetic makeup of the rest of the
> continent. By comparison, in the east of the country there has been a lot
> more mixing of genes coming from foreign sources."
> The interesting discussion under the heading of "The Irish are Not Celts"
> was in connection with the article that decries the tradition that there was
> a celts incursion into Ireland 2,500 years ago.
> I am not convinced that the learned experts who wrote the report are correct
> if the synopsis that we are given contains the data on which their opinion
> is based.
> They say -
> "You would expect some more affinity with
> central Europe if we owed the bulk of our ancestry to a movement from
> central Europe but we don't."
> The reason I disagree is that the tribes in Europe were very small in number
> (especially in todays terms). They were pushed hither and thither over very
> large distances in continuous tribal wars. The central European celts were
> attacked on all sides and they simply did not remain in central Europe.
> Note for instance that the Suebi journeyed from Germany to Portugal, pushing
> other tribes before them.
> I would suggest that Connaught men are not just the most Irish of the Irish
> , but the most celtic of the celts.
> Another lister recently gave us a link to
> this is a 'must read' for anyone interested in the celts.
> Malcolm Dodd
> Portugal
> ==============================
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