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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-09 > 1095291301


From: "Mary AsaWoman" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts, Slavs, Teutons; and North Sea Celts.
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:38:22 -0700
References: <LPBBIOAJJFIEMAHJCAPACELBDPAA.maldodd@sapo.pt> <246baaff040915105779e33518@mail.gmail.com> <009501c49b5f$7c9d52a0$6e90cbc1@f2i6i5> <002101c49b71$2226e2c0$225c8251@d6e4z6> <012c01c49b79$cf653100$b7ca2f50@Masterbedroom>


And I think this will end the thread so we can get back to surname projects
and DNA analysis.

Actually, the word, "Celt" comes from the Greek, "Keltoi," the name they
gave to a tribe in Central Gaul before the time of Julius Caesar. And so, it
became the word for a body of languages, not an ethnic group.

Mary, the one with the cats
----- Original Message -----
From: "gareth.henson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 16:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts, Slavs, Teutons; and North Sea Celts.


> Listers
>
> I have kept quiet about this one until now, but as (probably) one of the
few
> fluent Celtic speakers on the list I think I am entitled to a few
comments.
>
> Please please please do not make "Celtic" a genetic or racial term. It is
> primarily a linguistic one. There are Celtic languages and there are
people
> who speak Celtic languages, and there are places where Celtic languages
are
> spoken or have been spoken in modern times. But the DNA evidence is that
> these people share their genetic heritage with people who do not speak
> Celtic languages, in places where Celtic languages have never been spoken
or
> not been spoken for a very long time. And there are places where Celtic
> languages were once spoken where the genetic links are much weaker, along
> the Danube for example.
>
> I think it is likely that the present day Celtic speaking regions were
> almost the last places to take up Celtic languages, there may even have
been
> non-Celtic languages spoken in Britain in Roman times. Languages can be
> learnt and lost much more quickly than genes mutate. My known paternal
> ancestors (back to around 1810) were not Celtic speakers, it is possible
> that even though I am (almost certainly) R1b, no one in my paternal line
> ever spoke a Celtic language, if my ancestors came to Britain via Germany
or
> Scandinavia.
>
> The same can be said about groups I (are the Saami Teutonic?) and R1a (are
> Hungarians Slavs?)
>
> So lets keep separate terminology for languages and genes.
>
> Gareth
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "AAF" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 11:12 PM
> Subject: [DNA] Celts, Slavs, Teutons; and North Sea Celts.
>
>
> > Peter,
> > <> My ( admittedly West European) viewpoint is to ignore the cultural
and
> > linguistic differences which undoubtedly did occur, and, based on Doug
> > McDonald's maps, I simply...
> > (i) regard all R1b as Celtic, because it is strongest within the ancient
> > lands of the Celts.
> > (ii) regard all R1a as Slavonic, because it is most prevalent in the
Slav
> > countries of Poland and Russia.
> > (iii) regard all Clade "I" as Teutonic, because it is strongest in
Sweden
> > and very strong in Norway and Denmark, etc.
> > <> I accept that East European "Celts" and "Teutons" may not agree with
my
> > naming system.
> > <> I accept also that, as a "Germanic" R1b (23/11 for DYS 390 and DYS
> 391),
> > my celtic ancestors were almost certainly fully integrated and
> intermarried
> > into the germanic speaking Anglo-Saxon, Frisian, Danish, and Norwegian
> > forces which invaded theBritish Isles.
> > Alan Foster,
> > North Sea Kelt!
> > =============
> >
> > Peter asked...
> >
> >
> > > This brings us to the question of language. (I am sorry, I know this
is
> > miles away from DNA study) But if the Celts did not invade Ireland, how
is
> a
> > Celtic language spoken here?
> > > Does anyone know if those of us with the R1b haplogroup who got cut
off
> by
> > rising waters 10,000 years ago in England and Ireland able to
communicate
> > with each other by talking? Or did we just grunt, or is language older
> than
> > that?
> > > Peter.
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>

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