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From: Havelock Vetinari <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] The Irish are not celts, say experts (fwd)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:37:10 -0400
References: <246baaff040916083020d42bf0@mail.gmail.com> <20040916173828.6815.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <20040916173828.6815.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com>


Ellen:

These groups are present but only as a minority and many were probably
brought during the Roman Empire which would mean that most of this
genetic material has only been in western Europe for 2,000 years or
less.

Regards,
Vet


On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:38:28 -0700 (PDT), ellen Levy
<> wrote:
> Hi Vet:
>
> I disagree. England is about 6% J, E3b, G? It is
> debateable how these groups arrived there, but they
> are certainly present.
>
> In the French Basque, according to Semino's recent
> study, you have 13.6% haplogroup J. In Andalusia, you
> have 8.6% haplogroup J. There are some very high
> percentages of haplogroup E in Spain - almost 11% in
> some areas.
>
> I agree that when you start pushing up in northern
> Germany & Scandinavia, you have negligible amounts of
> these haplogroups, but then they had already migrated
> pretty far from home by the time they settled in
> Spain/France. Some of these groups might have been
> carried into the area by the Romans.
>
> The pattern for the migrations of the R1a IE speakers
> seems quite similar- they tend to petter out after
> pushing westward for a considerable distance.
>
> Ellen Coffman
>
>
>
>
> --- Havelock Vetinari <> wrote:
>
> > Actually, I think that the Neolithic farmers only
> > had a significant
> > genetic impact in south-eastern Europe. Northern and
> > western Europe
> > are largely Paleolithic.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vet
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:11:56 -0700 (PDT), ellen Levy
> > <> wrote:
> >
> > > What this boils down to is the old migrationist
> > vs.
> > > cultural diffusion argument. It is raging not
> > only
> > > regarding the Celtic issue, but also over the
> > > Neolithic farmer issue. However, given the strong
> > > genetic evidence (not to mention the
> > archaeological
> > > evidence as well) that has recently become
> > available,
> > > evidence indicating an actual migratory movement
> > of
> > > Neolithic Middle Eastern farmers has become truly
> > > overwhelming.
> >
> >
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>

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