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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-10 > 1097359168


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] New YHRD results
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <002c01c4ae36$4f782f40$0500a8c0@donald7pn5d5a0>


Hi Donald:

Can you reference the modern population studies you
mentioned as supporting this theory, particularly the
Visigothic theory. I'd like to read through them
myself. Thanks!

Ellen Coffman

--- "Donald N. Yates, Ph.D." <>
wrote:

> Just to clarify, I am not claiming that ALL R1b in
> Western Atlantic region was Visigothic, just the
> most common haplotype (WAMH) and that the R1b
> sub-haplotype identified in my previous post and
> borne by Yates, Ramey, Stewart and Caldwell lays
> bare the travels of WAMH, which Patrick summarizes
> pretty well. For all I know the ancient Celts were
> also primarily Rlb but I am doubtful that their
> particular haplotypes survive in great numbers
> today. It doesn't make sense that a Celtic
> patrilinear line would dominate during the long
> centuries of feudalism brought in by the
> Burgundians, Franks, Visigoths and others. I would
> add is that the Visigoths (Ostrogoths, too) left
> little posterity in the gene pools of Eastern Europe
> except in Wolhynia. They repopulated Spain and when
> the Arabs vacated they left little genetic memory in
> either the male or female lineages. So the native
> element enjoyed a resurgence both in respect to
> property rights, noble titles and patrilineal DNA
> lines. Mod!
> ern population studies are clear on this.
>
> Don
>
> Visit DNA Consulting at
> http://www.dnaconsultants.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Guinness
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 5:14 AM
> Subject: [DNA] New YHRD results
>
>
> Dear Don & List,
>
> At 11:22 am -0600 8/10/04, Donald N. Yates, Ph.D.
> wrote:
> >The modal score is Ireland and Northern Portugal;
> on a ratio basis,
> >it's Pyrennes. Interesing matches are Cabinda
> Angola (wonder how
> >Celts got to this Portuguese colony?)
>
> Simple; R1b was on the Atlantic coast long before
> anything we now
> call Celtic. Millenia later, some Portuguese R1b
> men colonised what
> we now call Angola for several centuries.
>
> Let's look at the Visigoths' areas of 'control'.
> They centred on what
> is now Roumania in about 360AD. Albania c.400.
> Rampage through Italy,
> Provence, Gascony & Spain in 408-418. Gascony was
> their centre in
> 451. Gascony & eastern Spain 450-476. Eastern
> Spain 528 until their
> total defeat by the Moors in 711.
>
> Northern Portugal had been conquered by the Suevi
> who were there
> until 600. The Basque country remained separate
> all through this
> period, where R1b reaches 90% today.
>
> Plus, the mutation rates found in Iberian R1b are
> too varied for it
> all to have arrived after 400.
>
>
> At 11:22 am -0600 8/10/04, Donald N. Yates, Ph.D.
> wrote:
> >common origin in medieval Spain and France,
> whence one branch
> >migrated with the Normans to the British Isles.
>
> If the Visigoths introduced R1b into western
> Europe in 400-700, why
> is so little seen today in eastern Europe?
>
> The mutation maths shows that the general Irish
> R1b population has
> likely been here since before 2000BC. That 'one
> branch' would be
> quite identifiable today. There is too much R1b
> variation here (and
> in Spain) for the Norman-Visigoths to have sired
> so many.
>
> How are some 25% of Norwegians in R1b, with lots
> of variation, when
> this hypothetical Norman-Visigoth 'branch' never
> reached Norway at
> all?
>
> Maybe http://www.dnaconsultants.com needs to do
> some basic research
> on DNA mutation rates, and the difference between
> identical by
> descent and identical by state.
>
> The hypothesis that there was a bottleneck c.500,
> and that the
> Visigoths carried all the R1b NRY into western
> Europe, doesn't stand
> up.
>
>
>
> At 11:22 am -0600 8/10/04, Donald N. Yates, Ph.D.
> wrote:
> >The retention of Visigothic names like Vetula
> ("little Vett") and
> >Etalka (Ashkenazic Jewish nickname for Adele) and
> Elzina (Arabic) is
> >also a strong indicator of Gothic
>
> We had archaeologists digging here a century ago
> who were sure that
> "Tara" derived from the Torah and that the Ark was
> buried there. But
> they were wrong.
>
> --
> Patrick Guinness
>
> Reply to:
>
>
> http://www.furness-house.com/
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