GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-10 > 1098856236


From: Janell J <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jefferson-Hemings DNA
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <000601c4bbd9$a7f27a80$18133244@lvngst01.md.comcast.net>


Two questions.

1. How would information that TJ fathered a child "tear down" his image? Even if he is found "guilty"(he hasn't been ruled out as far as I know), I really don't believe it would be a death sentence to his legacy. It would prove that, at least as a slave owner, he was no different from the rest. Over 30% of African Americans carry European paternal lineages, so everyone should understand (without the need of "political correctness" or "historical revisionism") that miscegenation was NOT out of the ordinary, despite the fact that virtually EVERY plantation owner was "STRICTLY against" it (in public). lol. But I wonder, if he was so against it, why did he allow it to happen the first time or every time thereafter?

2. Speaking of which, wouldn't it "tear down" his image more if it is shown that he allowed his male family and friends to impregnate the young slave on his own estate?

- Jan

Herbert Barger <> wrote:
Herb Barger replies at end of sentences to each statement.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaila & James Merrington"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Jefferson-Hemings DNA


> Hello
>
> I don't think there is 'hard' evidence* that TJ was the father, (BARGER REPLY:
You are correct), but the oral traditions not just from Sally Hemmings but from
letters Jefferson wrote at the did insinuate that TJ was the father of some of
Sally Hemmings' children. (BARGER REPLY: do not understand the statement. No
proof that TJ fathered any Hemings or Woodson child.) So there can be no hard
evidence unless we exhume TJ, Sally Hemmings and the children and do a Parental
DNA test on them. (BARGER REPLY: the DNA of TJ's first cousins represent (male
DNA source) of the Jeffersons.)
> The DNA backs up the oral traditions. (BARGER REPLY: The Woodson DNA did NOT
match at all the Jefferson DNA and that was the primary James Callender Campaign
Lies, a basis for all later charges. The Eston Hemings/Jefferson match ONLY
confirms, in my opinion, that SOME Jefferson DNA (whether by mulatto slave,
Sandy, inherited from TJ's father, or some other Jefferson but nothing proves
Thomas Jefferson.) Certainly the papers at the time commented on it on a
regular basis. I agree that there were likely spin doctors in the 1770's, as
well as the 2000's, and they were 'sanitizing' the Sally Hemmings version.
>
> The descendants of Martha Jefferson Randolph never said that the children did
not look like Jefferson, they gave an alternate scenario with the Carr brothers.
Jefferson's nephew, Randolph Jefferson was never mentioned at the time as a
likely suspect. I think that was only purported after DNA testing. At the
time, Thomas Jefferson never denied being their father. (BARGER REPLY: Randolph
was TJ's younger
brother, danced among the slaves, played the fiddle late into the night, rumored
to have fathered children by his own slaves, invited to visit Monticello 9
months prior to Eston's birth, was between wives when all of Sally's children
born, married a second time in late 1808 (same year that Eston was born and NO
MORE Sally children born). Jefferson DID send a letter to his Sec. of Navy,
Smith and another of his Secretaries, Levi Lincoldn, that he acknowledged in
his single days did admit to an indescretion with a local lady BUT denied any of
the OTHER slanderous rumors about him.)

We could also note it wasn't just an affair, but miscegenation which was a crime
by this time. (BARGER REPLY: Thomas Jefferson was STRICTLY against miscegenation
and there is NO proof of any "affair." Do you know that Sally DID NOT have a
first recorded child until after FIVE years after returning from France?) I can
reveal that the Hemings WILL NOT test a male ancestral uncle to CONFIRM that he
descends from Jefferson DNA...they are happy with oral history and are making
much money on personal appearances and writing books with inaccurate material.
Dan Jordan, Monticello President, will not even suggest to them that they
cooperate with the study. He long ago, before release of his Monticello Study,
told ME, "you ask them BUT do not put pressure on them." This Thomas Jefferson
"researcher" is not interested in further bringing science to this issue in my
opinion.

Recent research has revealed that Madison Hemings statements in the Pike Co.,
Ohio newspaper are less than accurate. This article is highly relied upon for
presenting Madison's remarks about TJ being his father. His mother, Sally, NEVER
told him he was a TJ descendant. His brother Eston (DNA match) NEVER stated that
he was a Thomas Jefferson descendant. In fact, his descendants always believed
they were descended from "an uncle", or a Jefferson nephew (Randolph's 5 sons,
with Jefferson DNA, fell into this family category, Randolph was known by this
name around Monticello and the Randolph plantation.

In just one of the inaccurate instances he asserts that Dolly Madison was
present at Monticello during his birth on January 19, 1805 and named him Madison
after her husband, James Madison. The Madison family records reflect that the
Madisons NEVER travelled to Virginia from Washington during the winter. Further
research indicates that this date was very cold, the bad roads frozen, the
streems covered with ice, etc. Can we imagine Dolly announcing to her husband,
James Madison, Sec. of State and Thomas Jefferson for whom she served as
Hostess, that she was sorry to have to "run down to Monticello" where she hears
that a slave is to give birth to a SON (much before the new technique of
determining the sex of a child), and MUST name him after her husband. To double
the degration of Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Madison, abolitionist publisher, Samuel
Wetmore, writes that Madison Hemings is made to say, "she never gave my mother
(Sally) a promised gift, but all white folks do that." The series of articles
ran under the subtitle of the Uncle Tom;s Cabin Book by Harriet Beecher Stowe.
>
> Recently, I googled Presidents because of the items in the press regarding
Bush and Kerry being 9th cousins once removed. (BARGER REPLY: Many past or
present presidents or heads of state were "cousins"; FDR, Churchill, Nixon,
Bush, Sir Anthony Eden, and Ford, to name a few, ALL cousins.)
>
> On one web page, there was a mention of 5 black presidents and Thomas
Jefferson was one mentioned. (Harding was another). So the O2 is very
interesting- although if someone decided that TJ had E3A blood it could have
come from another grandparental source. (BARGER REPLY: there are several books
dedicated to spreading the author's bias and agendas (and I have this one also),
just as we see today. To add Jefferson's name to a scandal guaranteed high
sales, such as William Wells Brown's NOVEL, Clotel, The President's Daughter,
the Sally Hemings book novels by Ribaud who was assisted on one by none other
than Jackie Kennedy Onassis, while she worked for a N.Y. publisher. and the book
that you mention............NO PROOF, just sensationalism.
>
> To me the evidence points to TJ being the father of at least some of Hemmings
children and evidence presented to the contrary being 18th Century spin
doctoring. (BARGER REPLY: NO "spin doctoring" from me. The three cited web pages
in an earlier e-mail will clarify this controversy for our subscribers.)
>
> These are subjects I never studied in high school. (BARGER REPLY: me
either........just a history of dedicated and fine founding fathers that we
should all revere and not seek to "tear down" for politically correct historical
revisionism.) I also revered the homes of these great men and still do, but NOW
I have changed MY opinion of the "caretakers" of one on a high hill in Albemarle
Co., Va.) Herb Barger
> Gaila
>
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>


==============================
Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


This thread: