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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-11 > 1101782327


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Question on Test Results Numbers..E3b&R1b
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:38:52 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20041130020443.68077.qmail@web52405.mail.yahoo.com>


Jeffrey:

Hmmm, I'll have to look into your suggestion regarding
the uniqueness of YAP among particular haplogroups and
what it might suggest regarding origins and
distribution.

I sympathize with your frustrations regarding lack of
information on the "rarer" European/Middle
Eastern/Central Asian haplogroups like Hg E (and Q and
G). I have found the lack of information on these
groups, particularly G, to be a source of frustration
as well, but remind myself that haplogroup G was only
"recently" discovered (ie, was discovered by
researchers much later than R1b, for example). There
is, in fact, a wealth of information on Hg E in
comparison with poor ole G, in my opinion.

I am confident in the future that more studies will be
conducted that examine these "rarer" haplogroups. The
difficulty is being patient in the meanwhile. I think
the MtDNA haplogroups are even less well understood
than the Y chromo. groups, if that's any consolation.

Another good source of information on haplogroups J &
E: Doron Behar's 2004 study: "Contrasting Patterns of
Y Chromosome Variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and Host
non-Jewish European Populations." It contains a lot
of information regarding these haplogroups within
non-Jewish populations, though its focus is
specifically comparing and contrasting non-Jews with
Ashkenazim.

Note that some of Behar's findings are misleading (in
my opinion). He contrasts non-Jewish E-M78 (which he
probably correctly attributes to Neolithic diffusion)
with Ashkenazi E-M35*, which is feels differentiates
the two populations and constitutes a major founding
lineage among Ashkenazim. However, according to
Semino's study, Ashkenazim only have about 1% of
E-M35* (hardly a major founding lineage), while in
contrast they have 5% of E-M78, so the two populations
are much closer than Behar would have you believe.

Ellen Coffman

--- Jeffrey Stewart <> wrote:

> hi ellen,
> i whisper in hopes of eluding the many rattling
> sabers out there. exactly, that is exactly what i
> attempted to implicate; serve the masses.
> i think that if a person were recruited by a
> surname group, and shows up as a DE or as you
> mentioned G; that they are not being served. i
> myself was a 'walk-on' so i have no complaint, but i
> would be truly disappointed to have been recruited,
> spent my money, and watched while the remainder of
> the group appeared to be 'getting somewhere'.
> what i find extremely intriguing, is that only
> DE require YAP to appear. i thought we were going
> to get an answer today, Thanks Ann for the excellent
> explanation of the YAP process.
> again in complete agreement with your earlier
> statement, "The posters to this list are
> well-educated about most of the haplogroups...." but
> where is the curiosity?
> something must have happened that was both
> cataclysmic and localized, to have created two
> haplogroups that are so unique that this special
> process is required to isolate them.
> what about sharing? there are folks out there,
> not me, but other folks; some of them surname
> project admins. that would truly benefit from the
> sharing of even limited information.
> it's clear to me that; 1) due to special
> processing, research of the DE haplogroups are going
> to bring up the rear, and; 2) due to population
> size, about 4% of ybase database and less of
> ysearch, that the urgency to examine these HGs isn't
> there. with this in mind, it is all the more
> important that what information we do have is
> shared.
> in a post earlier this year you stated that
> posters should cite their reference material when
> interjecting a point. once again i agree, hopefully
> all the saber rattling educed by this series of
> posts will bring about more sharing of information
> and reference materials.
> Thanks for your reply
> Jeffrey Stewart
>
> >
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