GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-12 > 1104258440
Subject: Re: [DNA] MRCA = 800 AD
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:27:20 +0000
Indeed it is a stretch, but Jean cites "Norman sources" and I do not have the time or inclination to check out each generation. All I can say is that "given the assumption that in fact the documentary record is correct as it is shown on paper, then"........................... Actually I don't think that we can dismiss all of the early genealogies. Jean has an extremely rare French surname which has stayed the same, but with "Le" or "Mal" in front of it back to 1049 and then changes as expected according to the times to "Fitz" so and so and at that point the historical sources and so on offer information on families (as his) who were vicomtes or comtes (count, member of the aristorcracy). I have no investment in this, but the paper and DNA match so I will let the two draw their own conclusions.
-------------- Original message --------------
> It seems to me that this could only be proven by testing "up the ladder,"
> perhaps 10 generations at a time (in the two different lines) and tracing
> the mutations back in time. This would provide an unbroken chain of DNA
> evidence back to the MRCA. First, however, you need a solid paper trail.
> This exercise and the assertion of a 44 generation genealogy would seem to
> be quite a stretch, to me. Thanks.
> Phil Goff
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:13 PM
> Subject: [DNA] MRCA = 800 AD
> > List:
> > Ok, heres one for the books.
> > I just received an e-mail from a fellow in Normandy who provided me with a
> > 44 generation chart of his line back to Eystein "Glumra" (d 879 AD).
> > Eystein had two sons, Ragnvald (the ancestor of my correspondant) and
> > Oulry whose 4th great grandson was Waleran, comte (count) de St. Clair.
> > One of my Shetland participants, surname Sinclair, appears to be a
> > descendant of the original Norman family of St. Clair (many with the
> > surname Sinclair adopted this name so only a few will be direct
> > descendants of the famous family).
> > The fellow from Normandy, who I will call Jean, and my Sinclair
> > participant match on 19 of 25 markers with some individual marker values
> > being very rare. The motif is DYS390=23, DYS391=11.
> > It is possible that we are seeing what has to be the earliest documented
> > MRCA between two individuals. Since there are so many generations where
> > non - paternity events could have taken place, I am unclear as to whether
> > this is an identical by state or identical by descent situation.
> > Would someone who is more adept at stats than I kindly determine the
> > expected number of mutations in 90 transmissons (45 for each man back to
> > the alleged common ancestor) using both the standard mutation rates (e.g.,
> > .028) and those arrived at by FTDNA recently for their first two panels.
> > Gracias.
> > David F.
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