Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-12 > 1104297800

From: "Steven C. Perkins" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Can 385a,b = 14,15 be 15/14?
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:23:20 -0600
In-Reply-To: <018d01c4ed36$9eaf6c10$6f519045@Ken1>


I asked Bennett about this in Nov of 2003 after Alistair brought it up.
Bennett said that the U of Az lab looked at the technique but did not
think it would add to the genealogical value of the tests.

I just sent him another message to ask if there are any new developments
in the 385a,b, area.


Steven C. Perkins

On 28 Dec 2004 at 16:40, Ken Nordtvedt wrote:

Date forwarded: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:40:57 -0700
Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:40:31 -0700
Forwarded by:
From: Ken Nordtvedt <>
Subject: [DNA] Can 385a,b = 14,15 be 15/14?
Send reply to:

> I read the abstract of the Eur J Hum Gen paper Ann mentioned and got
> nothing much from the abstract by itself. But let me describe the
> importance of this question to my studies.
> I1a is dominated by a population of 13,14 at 385a,b. Should I try to
> understand its geographical distribution as a combination of two different
> populations --- a 13,14 population and a 14,13 population? Those would be
> two mutational steps apart at the marker pair 385a and 385b. The I1a
> 14,14 population would then be considered an intermediate state in the
> phylogenetic tree rather than a simple neighbor of the 13,14 population.
> Elsewhere in the total tree of I1a varieties there is the Norse variety
> with 14,14 at 385a,b. This variety is mostly found in
> Norway/Sweden/Finland and has DYS 462 = 13 rather than the DYS 462 = 12
> found most of the time down in Germany and neighbors. Next to 14,14 I1a I
> have a "super-Norse" 14,15 I1a even more confined to
> Norway/Sweden/Finland. Are there really two such populations up there ---
> a 14,15 and a 15,14? Actually my phylogenetic tree does divide the 14,15
> into two parts, but I had interpreted that as a mutation at another slow
> marker within a single 14,15 population. The tree could now be
> constructed quite differently?
> I hope it becomes clear that the phylogenetic tree structure of a
> haplogroup's distribution and evolution of haplotypes from a founder could
> become drastically altered if 385a,b for that haplogroup includes
> degenerate repeat values N,N in its midst and its neighbors N,N+1 are
> really N,N+1 and N+1,N superimposed.
> I hope we can get this issue straightened out.
> Ken
> ==============================
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