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From: "Bernard Burgey" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] I1a in Denmark
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:38:27 -0400
References: <BAY21-F12A81BDA2A464842296965857D0@phx.gbl> <000701c50877$d526d6f0$eb409145@Ken1> <007501c508c5$d9fad0c0$4688fea9@phryne> <420032F6.9080000@hargray.com>


Dale,

I thought of the Callic/Celtic as a cultural not a ethnic origin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale E. Reddick" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] I1a in Denmark


> Hi Folks,
>
> In Julius Ceasar's "The Battle For Gaul" the Helvetii were described as
> being a Gaulish or Gallic people living in what is now Switzerland.

exactly! and came out of the north

"Germanic" refers to Germanic speakers.
Who can separate the whole mixed ethnic bag?

> Also, there is poor documentation of the ethnic origins of the Teutoni
> and Kimbri - they may have been Germanic in origins. But, too - they
> might have been Gallic / Celtic in origin. They seem to have appeared
> on the Roman 'radar screen' in an area East of modern Switzerland -
> perhaps originating in Austria or Slovenia. That -almost- has to make
> them Celtic.
There is poor documentation! But we can not place the Teutons into the heart
of the Celtic culture of Ausria, althoug they became surely influenced by
the fashion.
Again, who can separate the schop sui?

Celtic Halstatt and La Tene culture was spread all across
> central and northern Europe - encompassing areas now dominated by German
> and Slavic speakers - prior to the invasion of those areas by such
> expanding peoples (later in time).
>
> The Alemanni were a tribal grouping centered on the headwaters of the
> Rhine and Danube. In the late 5th century they were separated from the
> Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Frisians by the Franks and Thuringians.
>
> Modern assignments of ethnic origins for ancient tribes may do us a
> great disservice.
>
> Just my contribution to this discussion.
>
> Dale
> ________________________________
>
> Bernard Burgey wrote:
>
> >Ken,
> >
> >I don't know about the Frisian - Kurgan connection, but the about 20%
> >of "non-German" in German Languages refer to horses, administration
> >and warfare. Perhaps some "Kurgan" influence?About Jutland, Frisia....
> >The Helvetii, a Clan of the "German" tribe of the Tigurinians(?, I'm not
> >sure
> >about the English spelling) immigrated together with the Teutones and
> >Kimber from 110 BC out of Jutland, forced from some inundations)
> >moving south. (Swiss=Helvetia, the South I2's?)
> >The Gotes wandering about 350 AD from the North Sea to the Black Sea
> >and the Burgundians came in the 3rd Ctr from Bornholm to West Germany
> >the area what is now Rheinland, Hessen. In about 335 they tried to take
the
> >Roman province Belgae. In this battle against the Romans and there allies
> >the Hunnes, the Burgundians lost the battle and there King Gundikar and
his
> >wife Giselher (Nibelung Epos= the oldest German Literature)
> >Don't forget the Alemans, = loose confederation of "all man" consisting
of
> >all the Clans and all the tribes.incl. Angle Saxon.
> >
> >Regards
> >Bernard
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> >Subject: Re: [DNA] I1a in Denmark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>What makes these Frisians any more descendants of the Kurgans than many
> >>other Europeans? I thought the Kurgans were associated with
introduction
> >>
> >>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>horses, Indo-European languages, and maybe R1a into Europe more
generally?
> >>
> >>I ask because my maternal grandmother was probably a Frisian, born in
> >>Schleswig near the Danish/German border about 10 miles from the North
Sea
> >>coast. She was U5b mtDNA --- as am I.
> >>
> >>Ken


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