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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-02 > 1109004501


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] 13, 16 at DYS 385a,b
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:48:21 -0700
References: <022120051630.28390.421A0C8B0000D8B500006EE622070009539B0708990C0A0B0B@comcast.net>


No, I was just giving the biggest neighboring subclade populations.
Southern Sweden is populated by a a very large number of the 14, 22, 13, 14.
So in a sense they are probably what you describe, proto "Anglo Saxon[s] who
didn't go off to England but instead went to Scandinavia [much earlier]".
This type got to Norway and Finland in much smaller numbers.

14, 23, 13, 16 is just off the haplotype beaten path. Another key marker
that might give a good clue about what this unusual haplotype mutated from
is DYS 462 which you will only have if you had a DNA Heritage or Relative
Genetics test or are in the Sorenson database. DYS 462 = 13 would suggest
you were an ancient 14, 23 and the 13, 16 wandered off.. But 13, 16 is a
long way from 14, 14 or 14, 15 which are the dominant types going with 14,
22 at DYS 19, 390. I would guess the more likely is DYS 462 = 12. DYS 462
is a big divide in Scandinavian I1a.

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] 13, 16 at DYS 385a,b


> But he is 14-23 and family history says from Sweden. Are you saying he
might be part of the Anglo Saxon group who didn't go off to England but
instead went to Scandinanvia? Sorry to be so dense. Dolores
>
>
> > The largest population I found in I1a with 13, 15 at DYS 385a,b has the
14,
> > 22 at DYS 385a,b. This is not surprising because 14, 22, 13, 14 (The
> > "Anglo-Saxon motif in Britain" is the largest population within I1a at
those
> > four markers (DYS 19, 390, 385a,b). The 13/ 15 was running at about 25
> > percent of the 13, 14. That 13, 15 population would be big enough that
a
> > 13, 16 should pop up on occasion.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] 13, 16 at DYS 385a,b
> >
> >
> > > There are some fairly large populations of I1a with 13, 15 at DYS
385a,b.
> > > Perhaps he is a single step mutation from one of them? I would have
to
> > see
> > > more of the markers, particularly DYS 19, 390, in order to suggest a
> > > subclade for him.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:44 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [DNA] 13, 16 at DYS 385a,b
> > >
> > >
> > > > I had my husband's dna run again for SNP to confirm that he is "I"
even
> > > though he has 455 as 8. A lot of his values seem atypical. FTDNA
> > reported
> > > he is P19+. I emailed FTDNA and asked if any other tests were run and
> > have
> > > had no answer. My husband has values of 13 and 16 for 385a, b. I
haven't
> > > seen any discussion on similar values for "I". Anybody have a guess
on
> > what
> > > subclade he might belong to? Dolores
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I don't exactly understand your question, but there is only one
> > > assignment
> > > > > of two identical repeat lengths to the two actual sites in the dns
> > > (unless
> > > > > and until they discover some new tag which might be involved). I
> > > believe
> > > > > DYS 385a,b = 15, 15 is fairly common for I2 a.k.a. I1c. The
person
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > 14, 15 was from haplogroup I1a in which DYS 385a,b = 14, 15 is a
> > strong
> > > > > indicator of being from a Norse variety of that haplogroup.
There
> > > could be
> > > > > two objective and distinct types of DYS 385a,b = 14, 15 I1a. Only
> > > future
> > > > > measurements will tell.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Bernard Burgey" <>
> > > > > To: <>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:00 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [DNA] somewhat off topic?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ken,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > in my "I2" case it's 15/15 at 385 ,either way.
> > > > > > Makes this a analysis or opinion harder or easier?
> > > > > > From where the heck got I transplanted?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > Bernard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> > > > > > To: <>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 5:28 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DNA] somewhat off topic?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your DYS 385a,b = 14, 15 probably makes you a descendant of a
> > > Norwegian
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > Swede, and with lesser probability a Dane or North German
living
> > > along
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > south shore of the Baltic. These "deep" ancestral lines may
have
> > > > > reached
> > > > > > > you via Britain by way of the historic immigrants/invaders
from
> > the
> > > > > > > previously mentioned places.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ==============================
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