Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1109749546

From: "Peter Bailey" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Genealogy and DNA LIMITATIONS: Understanding exactly how tests reinforce folk ideologies.
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 07:45:46 -0000
References: <>

Whit & David,

I am most grateful to you for the time that you have taken to consider my
case. You may understand, however, that I am still just a little confused
and shall lurk on the list a little longer to try to get to grips with the
jargon, etc.

So, although somewhat disappointed that my 10th century ancestry is now in
doubt, I must save up for further testing. Could I trouble you a bit further
and ask you to suggest which test I should best request to sort myself out?
It looks as if FTDNA is a good bet, but, if M17 is not advised (whatever
that means!), should I request M something else?

I should add that my OA test was made just about two years ago and, quite
evidently, science has marched on apace since then and will surely continue
to do so.

With best wishes - Peter Bailey

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] Genealogy and DNA LIMITATIONS: Understanding exactly how
tests reinforce folk ideologies.

> Whit:
> My point was not to put a definitive haplogroup designation on Peter's
haplotype, which is not possible with 10 markers and a rare happlotype, it
is that you cannot "diagnose Viking" from a single marker. I really don't
know, what Peter's haplogroup is. Toss it in your haplogroup predictior and
see what comes out the hopper.
> OA does not offer a Haplogroup Database and a haplogroup predictor as does
FTDNA with even their 12 marker offering. This is one for SNP testing, but
quite frankly I wouldn't know where to start so would have to approach it as
a "world - wide" test in the manner that Trace Genetics does at present. I
don't recall when I last saw a DYS390=22 in an R1a haplotype - yes I do,
never. Do you know of any M17 SNP tested haplotypes that have emerged with
DYS390=22? I have seen a 23 in Cinnioglu's paper. G2 is modal 11 at
DYS392, and DYS390=22 is also modal for some of the databases here. If I
was SNP testing Peter, I certainly wouldn't start with M17. Also add in
Eb3 - same scenario as G2. These are both more likely than R1a but the only
litmus test is more Y-STRs or a haplogroup SNP test.
> David F.
> -------------- Original message --------------
> > David, if Peter's haplotype is J2, it will be the first ever (except for
> > other possible case) to be found with DYS388=12 (out of several hundred
> > examined). It's possible, but very unlikely. Of course, a couple of
> > Peter's values occur only at the 1% level in R1a, but at least they have
> > been observed. I still believe that R1a is most likely.
> >
> > Whit
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [mailto:]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:50 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] Genealogy and DNA LIMITATIONS: Understanding exactly
> > tests reinforce folk ideologies.
> >
> > Peter:
> >
> > . . . Your haplotype, while needing to be confirmed by SNP testing, is
> > likely J2 not R1a (old Hg 3). The two are as different as night and day
> > not once have I ever seen a J2 DNA signature in any of the Norse
> > such as Orkney, Shetland, Faroes or Iceland.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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