GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1109905244
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] New haplogroup to me
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:00:44 -0700
References: <009b01c52050$6783ca90$1002a8c0@Sharon> <003001c52057$c383de50$eb409145@Ken1> <003d01c52063$5882deb0$1002a8c0@Sharon>
You are asking a lot from the present databases. France is notoriously weak
in the databases. Ask the French why? What I can presently find is that
the one variety of I1c has higher fraction of total in Iberia, southern
Germany, Italy; while the other variety has higher fraction in northern
Germany, Netherlands, and especially Scandinavia. Then you look at the
British Isles balance between the two varieties in other databases and find
a surprising amount of that from the "southern" continental variety. This
isolation of the southern variety as you move south in Europe is difficult;
the databases with lots of markers where you can really isolate the I1c
don't cover southern Europe well; and the database which does has so few
markers it is easy to get haplotypes from G or other haplogroups that you
pick up inadvertently in extracting the I1c haplotypes. So at this point I
believe there is an objective fact here about the two geographies of the two
varieties, but one can't say much more now.
The only clue I have on the "Molyneaux" origins is that my Molyneaux
ancestor was supposed to have been a Huguenot refugee to England from the
eradication campaign of one of the French kings. These Protestants in
France were not evenly distributed geographically. There were some hotspots
where they preferentially came from. I think some of their areas of
concentration were in the west and southwest of France. But the history
books/encyclopedia/googlesearch would spell it out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Bryant" <>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] New haplogroup to me
> How far south in Europe do you mean? The surname is, of course, originally
> Molyneaux and is supposed to have originated in France, but the province
> eludes me right now.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] New haplogroup to me
> > Sharon, It looks to me very much like a "southern" variety of I1c with
> > the
> > 8,9 at DYS 459a,b. Too bad you don't have YCAIIa,b. If that were 19,
> > that would probably cinch it for I1c. The 14,18 at 385a,b is off the
> > beaten
> > path.
> > The usual giveaway for I1c is the 12,14 or 12,15 at DYS 392,393
> > The "southern" I1c is called that by me because it seems to have a
> > frequency as you move south in Europe, while the "northern" variety is
> > most
> > present up in Scandinavia. But when I look at the fraction of
> > I1c found in Britain it seems too high for the known historic
> > invasions/immigrations; so I have been wondering if the "southern"
> > came to Britain in earlier eras and can be called "indigenous" in that
> > sense? I will look at the lesser known markers and try to confirm this.
> > There are a number of modal differences that can be examined.
> > Ken
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sharon Bryant" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 5:23 PM
> > Subject: [DNA] New haplogroup to me
> >> I just received a 25-marker test result which is completely foreign to
> > (most of my previous ones have been R1b with an occasional I thrown in).
> >> I ran the numbers through Whit's predictor and came up with the
> > percentages: I1c - 45%, J2 - 41%, I1b - 21% (Ken, I've posted them
> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sbry/molyneauxindex.htm)
> >> The ancestor in question was born c 1761 in VA with no hint of his
> > parentage to the best of my knowledge.
> >> Could someone please give me some idea of a historical geographic
> >> location
> > for I1c?
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sharon
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