Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-03 > 1110071089

From: "gareth.henson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b in India and the Arab World
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 01:04:49 -0000
References: <>


the 23/10/10 are very likely R2s - as usual Cinnioglu is the only helpful
source with 5 samples found and tested positive for M124, all with 10/10 at


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 12:52 AM
Subject: [DNA] R1b in India and the Arab World

> List:
> Just looking through the Y-STR haplotypes in Mukerjee et al.'s 2001
article in Journal of Genetics, Vol. 80, No. 3, pp. 125-135 entitled
"High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures
of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia to India".
> The Hg 1 grouping is astounding. There is virtually no overlap between
those from Northern India and Isreali and Palestinian Arabs. Looking at
DYS390, 391 and 392, the Arabs had the expected modals of 24/10 or 11/13
whereas the Indians had 23/10/10. Now this makes no sense. The latter
cannot possibly be R1b.
> Looking at the sequencing procedure, it is clear that they only sequenced
to P*, with Hg 3 (R1a) tested separately. The say they pooled the Hg 1and
Hg 22 haplotypes (the latter being R1b8 in the 2002 terminology). It
appears that the Indians were not R1b at all but somewhere way back in the
ancestral chain. Looking at Behar's Ashkenazi data, the P-P27* modals are
> This is what drives me crazy with most of the studies exploring R and Q -
there is seldom a way to know what haplogroup you are really looking at. We
simply do not have any real idea of how many of the Hg1 (assumed R1b)
samples in the majority of research studies are scattered along the
ancestral chain back to P-P27* or beyond. Many of these studies are worse
than useless since they mislead. We are now entering a period in time where
it is harder than ever to get funding for pop gen studies but now realize
that much of what is published to date (with some notable exceptions) will
have to be repeated. Most of the R1a will have been correctly typed, it is
just the others, R and Q, forward from the ancestral P-M45 that are in
> David F.
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